Tenten Founder Meeting, Sep 20, 2026

September 20, 20261 h 19 min1426 turns
ImanNiclasJason (absent)Alex EAlex STenten Founder
00:00
Alex E
No, we just do it for the first call.
00:01
Niclas
Okay.
00:03
Alex E
And the first call is just like with the hottest woman they ever met.
00:06
Tenten Founder
Like not too hot, like pretty girl next door kind of vibe, you know? And she just tries to spend an hour. And you're paid
00:14
Tenten Founder
by the minute after minutes. Or after minutes. You pay her just for that.
00:19
Tenten Founder
And then so her job is to, and she's incentivized to...
00:22
Niclas
Also, it would be interesting, you guys are always saying that when we pay the people, the conversation is not natural enough, right?
00:28
Niclas
What if you pay only one of them?
00:30
Alex E
No, we kind of disproved it with like, with we matched strangers. Like it's, I would say it's natural. Oh, I don't know, what is your take, Iman, for strangers?
00:38
Iman
If we get the quality right, it's not like,
00:42
Iman
if it's like people that would talk in real life, if we can bring them in front of a phone, it works. Yeah.
00:47
Alex S
00:47
Tenten Founder
Yeah.
00:48
Niclas
Okay.
00:48
Tenten Founder
And if the girl is incentivized to push the conversation, so tell me about your childhood and tell me about this, and just she's making that person talk. Yeah.
00:56
Niclas
00:56
Tenten Founder
You would get good data out of that. Probably, yeah. But interesting.
00:58
Niclas
01:00
Alex S
01:00
Niclas
01:02
Tenten Founder
Wait, why don't you build OnlyFans accounts?
01:05
Alex S
Oh, you can put it on OnlyFans.
01:06
Niclas
01:06
Alex S
Do you want a Coke?
01:10
Tenten Founder
Just regular Coke?
01:11
Alex S
01:12
Tenten Founder
Uh, I don't
01:12
Alex S
think so, we only have zero.
01:14
Tenten Founder
Do you have anything with real sugar?
01:16
Alex S
01:18
Alex S
Wait. I have like these things. I don't know if you want.
01:19
Niclas
01:20
Tenten Founder
No, zero is okay then. I just feel the taste... It has zero? No, it has
01:24
Niclas
three grams of sugar.
01:26
Tenten Founder
No no, like drink.
01:27
Tenten Founder
I just feel the taste of the regular one is... Yeah, we said
01:29
Niclas
you only have zero, we were like zero healthy.
01:31
Niclas
Everyone is nowadays.
01:32
Tenten Founder
But zero fine?
01:34
Niclas
01:35
Tenten Founder
01:37
Tenten Founder
Yeah, you can...
01:38
Tenten Founder
Yeah, please. Because yeah, if the goal is to get as many data as possible, you don't even, sometimes you don't even need to build an app, you just need to find ways to get people to talk, you know?
01:46
Alex S
I mean...
01:47
Alex E
But okay, yeah, but only for the first call and then we would try to scale it like from the core experience.
01:54
Tenten Founder
Yeah, you incentivize those people, so you can create like fake OnlyFans girls, right?
02:00
Alex E
Yeah, but we want like tens of thousands, we couldn't like pay tens of thousands of them.
02:04
Tenten Founder
Tens of thousands?
02:07
Alex E
02:07
Tenten Founder
Well, yeah, is the difference, is it about the difference of people or is it about the length of conversation?
02:12
Alex E
It's about the length, but the total pool obviously scales with the amount of users.
02:16
Tenten Founder
So if you have one couple that speak for hours,
02:21
Alex E
02:21
Tenten Founder
is that more valuable than
02:23
Alex E
02:24
Tenten Founder
couples speaking, like couples speaking for an hour?
02:27
Alex E
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:27
Tenten Founder
02:28
Alex E
Yeah? Yeah.
02:28
Niclas
But that would be a pro argument... Right, for for the OnlyFans thing because people build those parasocial relationships.
02:32
Tenten Founder
02:32
Niclas
02:33
Alex E
Yeah, but I mean more like let's say we need like hours, do we pay human employees hours?
02:40
Tenten Founder
No, the goal is to pay them as least as possible.
02:43
Alex S
But if you, I mean if you have an app where you can record
02:46
Tenten Founder
whatever they say. And also you can switch the thing. At first you do that and then at the end
02:50
Alex E
02:50
Tenten Founder
02:50
Tenten Founder
they pay to talk to them.
02:53
Alex S
02:53
Tenten Founder
That's how it works today, like the the OnlyFans girl, the people pay to talk to them. And they want to spend time.
03:00
Alex E
Yeah. There's something like this, it's called like uh, the P uh, I I had interviewed some of those users. There's one platform where this is the thing where they just pay to talk.
03:11
Niclas
Wait, is it the thing where like
03:12
Alex E
03:12
Niclas
people put the link in their bio, in their Instagram and then people can just talk to them? Or or... Eepa. Eepa.
03:16
Tenten Founder
Oh, I know what you can do too. How many, what's the goal there in terms of hours?
03:22
Alex E
Let's say like Or like a million.
03:23
Tenten Founder
03:24
Alex E
03:25
Niclas
03:26
Tenten Founder
Million, yeah. Okay. You can run like
03:28
Tenten Founder
fake interviews. Interviews.
03:32
Tenten Founder
03:33
Alex E
But we want like natural conversations, something... It is natural, an
03:34
Tenten Founder
interview, like a job interview. Have people like on on Zoom or whatever, like you have your own Zoom, right? You create your own Zoom, you post a job board and
03:38
Tenten Founder
you're like trying to hire any kinds of people, housekeepers, like whatever. And you do like a fake meet, you you create your own meet, right, where you can capture both mic. You can build that in two days. And and then you just do jobs interviews that are pay 100k a year for a housekeeper or for anything, right? And you have someone from your team or someone that you pay like an intern to like ask them questions. So well, what about you, like where are you from, na na na na na na, like an hour interview.
03:47
Alex E
03:48
Tenten Founder
04:08
Alex E
So so let's say we pay them like, what's minimum wage here? Like, is there even...
04:12
Tenten Founder
For an intern?
04:13
Alex E
04:13
Alex S
04:14
Alex E
Well, yeah, why... Let's say like an hour.
04:16
Alex S
But you can just give like extra ordinary high salaries, right? Because...
04:19
Alex E
No no no no, you don't get minimum wage. You don't pay pay them.
04:21
Tenten Founder
them actually, yeah, you don't
04:22
Alex S
04:23
Alex E
Yeah, don't you don't pay them at all. No no no, like
04:25
Niclas
you like you speak out. He means the
04:26
Alex E
people that are called. Somebody has to do the interview.
04:27
Alex S
04:28
Alex E
So let's say we...
04:29
Alex S
04:31
Niclas
I figure an AI agent, but okay, yeah. No no no, it two humans.
04:31
Alex E
has to be
04:32
Niclas
04:32
Alex S
04:33
Alex E
Ah, it has to be two humans. So let's say, I don't know, like bucks. That's like million dollars. Or is my math wrong? For like million hours, 'cause there's another person on the side that always has to talk.
04:43
Tenten Founder
But you don't pay them an hour. You pay them, uh, let's say...
04:47
Alex E
04:47
Tenten Founder
04:48
Alex E
04:48
Tenten Founder
I mean it's humans.
04:51
Tenten Founder
Yeah, it's humans. No, if you take, let's say you pay someone 2k a month, right? Someone that speaks fluently in in France or in Germany or whatever.
05:00
Tenten Founder
2K a month.
05:01
Iman
But what's the job description? Just fake interview?
05:03
Tenten Founder
Yeah.
05:05
Iman
But like after like... It sounds like porn, dude. After like people, I think they will report the shit out of you. Like it only scales with as many like like raw dog people that would do this. And unfortunately you either would need to go to like Philippines because they're so desperate that if they fuck it, they will lose all their life savings or family. But unfortunately they have bad accents.
05:25
Tenten Founder
05:25
Iman
Yeah. And so you would fuck it. And so...
05:28
Tenten Founder
No, they don't know, they don't know it's fake then.
05:29
Iman
No, no, but their accent themselves. You know?
05:33
Iman
05:33
Tenten Founder
Well, tell them you're you're okay, you're recruiting recruitment company and you need someone to run interviews for a bunch of different companies. And they're just and you have a set of question and you say that, you know, and you don't tell them it's fake interviews. You tell them they work for a recruitment company and their job is to take interviews all day. And you pay them 2K a month and they do hours a day or hours a day.
05:51
Tenten Founder
05:52
Iman
05:52
Tenten Founder
05:56
Alex S
And you can have like 100K positions, right? Because they're not real.
06:00
Tenten Founder
Yeah, you just like some just to get you a bunch of people at the door. And then you have like a few people that you pay not that well and they just they think they work for a recruitment company and they actually run interviews.
06:10
Alex S
That's smart. I like that idea.
06:13
Alex E
And it would cost like a couple million, but...
06:15
Tenten Founder
No, less. Wait,
06:16
Tenten Founder
first you train...
06:17
Iman
It's like a it's a good tier two type data. Because like the
06:20
Tenten Founder
Yeah. if you think about like what the optimal data is, it's like
06:20
Iman
you and me sitting at a bar drinking beer. We're like talking about like everything and anything. That's like that's like god tier in this specific thing. This type of stuff that's like kind of scripted because like an interview always has a script. So it's like, where do you live? Where do you go? Oh, so tell me about your family. Yeah, my family is... Oh, tell me about your previous job. Yeah, I worked at... It's like it's okay, but like you don't need like a million hours of that shit. Like you get like 50K like
06:26
Iman
hours is kind of like relevant per like job group. And maybe like there's job groups where it's like more free flowing. Maybe like a let's say like what's like a free flowing job? Let's say you're interviewing a person for a position that is creative in itself. So they would need to come up with ideas, they would need to come up with scripts, maybe in the movie room stuff. Then it would make kind of more sense. But it's not like a tier one thing that I would like I would say like let's put million into this shit.
06:48
Iman
07:01
Iman
07:17
Tenten Founder
What's what would be a tier one conversation? What's...
07:20
Iman
You and me at a bar talking like over two beers about like our lives. That's
07:24
Iman
what I think. Catching up.
07:25
Tenten Founder
Why at a bar?
07:26
Alex S
Because of the sound.
07:28
Tenten Founder
You want you want oh you want sound.
07:29
Alex S
Ist wie ein Cocktail.
07:31
Iman
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I mean two things.
07:34
Iman
One is, noise on the outside, I don't give a shit about right now. Yeah. That's a different thing.
07:37
Alex S
07:38
Iman
07:38
Tenten Founder
Is it good or bad?
07:40
Iman
It's perfect, but not for the... we're talking about two different things.
07:43
Tenten Founder
07:43
Iman
Okay. One thing is ambiently, if I have my phone here... Yeah.
07:46
Tenten Founder
07:46
Iman
...and or like we have a Motorola right now and we take it out everywhere and a hundred thousand people record everything, that's a complete different bucket, that's incredible too. Yeah. But that's not
07:53
Iman
what we're talking about. Qubi is not that. Qubi is two people for a sustained period of time, more than minutes usually, talking about a lot of things that only casual conversations would bring about. So...
08:05
Tenten Founder
So when you think about this, talk about the setup, it's just that casual conversation usually done at the bar. Not the...
08:09
Iman
Exactly. I'm not at the bar bar, but like
08:12
Alex E
08:12
Iman
I'm basically like, imagine you're at a bar but you're alone. You know, and like there's
08:15
Tenten Founder
no noise. That type of conversation that you'd have
08:15
Iman
Yeah. with your buddy is perfect. If you have it with two people, it's perfect. Three, even better. Four, even better. Five, even better. At some point it caps out because imagine you're in a group of six, it's very hard to maintain a conversation in six, like two to two, you know? So there's like a finite limit at the top. But that's what I mean. Because then you talk about like, oh, I smashed this girl yesterday, and you're like, oh fuck, send me a picture, show me a picture. And like all this shit, like the models have never seen. And so if you say stuff like that, it's almost like you're trying to talk to an alien about this stuff and like he doesn't understand. And so that's what I'm trying to say. And if you're in an interview, sure, on the internet there's enough YouTube videos of like people like talking of like interview style things that then models have been trained on and then they do like interaction data with the AI and the human, it's fine. It works. It's like okay-ish. If the interview is not like perfect perfect human natural, it's okay, you're trying to get a house cleaner, right? You don't have to like have like that level of engagement.
08:48
Iman
Yeah.
09:10
Tenten Founder
09:10
Iman
But if you want to tap like that level of engagement, you need surely like data of like people that are socially intelligent in casual scenarios that have talked for like everything.
09:19
Tenten Founder
So you like, but if you want to do the interviews thing, you just find a different angle then. Talk to college students about...
09:26
Iman
College students, in my opinion, is like the perfect breeding ground for something like this.
09:29
Tenten Founder
Yeah, because they're not too, yeah.
09:31
Iman
Young enough, um, poor enough, and like, um, their instincts are like heightened because they want sex, money, and like... Pretty much. ...everything like the highest.
09:41
Iman
Yeah.
09:42
Tenten Founder
09:43
Iman
and after that it always goes down because you have your pickier group.
09:46
Tenten Founder
09:46
Iman
Um, So like, if you can tap into like people that immediately come to university, you won. Yeah. And...
09:50
Tenten Founder
09:51
Iman
Before would be incredible, unfortunately I think the jail probability just goes up with like every year you go down. [Lacht]
09:57
Niclas
09:58
Iman
09:58
Niclas
Proper jail. Yeah we talked about it just just before.
10:01
Alex E
that's so funny.
10:02
Niclas
He looked into the
10:03
Alex E
No, Danish mafia and then he told us it's a mafia. So good.
10:05
Iman
10:05
Tenten Founder
10:06
Iman
10:07
Tenten Founder
Yeah. My my one of my best friends got arrested by ICE here. Oh.
10:10
Iman
10:11
Tenten Founder
And so I had to like talk to him while he was in jail, right?
10:14
Tenten Founder
Mhm. And we were using this shitty app that you have to use there called Getting Out. Mhm. And the experience was so frustrating and the quality was so bad.
10:20
Iman
The app is called Getting Out?
10:22
Niclas
10:22
Tenten Founder
Yeah. Yeah.
10:23
Iman
So when he...
10:24
Niclas
It's number in social networks.
10:25
Iman
So if he's an inmate right now, he has like um he has like an hour per day?
10:31
Tenten Founder
No, he has unlimited. From in the morning to like at night.
10:36
Tenten Founder
But you have to pay for credits. And the credit has to come from the outside.
10:40
Iman
Ah.
10:40
Tenten Founder
So I had to pay for his calls.
10:44
Iman
How much is it per minute?
10:45
Tenten Founder
Like almost one buck a minute or like cents a minute.
10:47
Iman
So okay, if you oh, but like theoretically if you bankroll everything you can talk to him all day.
10:52
Tenten Founder
Pretty much, yeah. And they all have these tablets. So that's why I was looking into it because I was like there's so much fucking money to be made there. And I can make a way better product. I already have all the infrastructure and the stability. And so I looked into it and there's a bunch of companies that do it. And it's like government bids, you know, every like five years they sign and then you have to deal negotiate jail by jail. Yeah.
11:12
Iman
11:13
Tenten Founder
Which is a shit show. And on top of that, those companies provide the prison with tablets, rugged, you know, like custom made tablets, like um with a locked OS, you know, like with three fake apps on it, you know, like some music and some books and and some calls or whatever. So you have
11:28
Iman
to actually get through the iPad manufacturer to be able to like go... Because those people,
11:33
Iman
11:34
Tenten Founder
yeah, those people, when they get the deal, they provide the iPads to the prison with the software. Mm.
11:39
Iman
11:39
Tenten Founder
So I cannot use their iPad in my software. I have to wait five years for them to like finish...
11:44
Iman
Oh, so so so oh you you there's no way for you to go onto their iPad? I don't think so.
11:48
Tenten Founder
11:49
Iman
Ah, okay.
11:50
Tenten Founder
I think they it's their that's that's where they're smart.
11:52
Iman
And they're both together in this? Like it's one company? So the app and the hardware is one? Yeah.
11:56
Tenten Founder
Ah, that's smart.
11:57
Iman
11:57
Tenten Founder
That's why that's why they're smart because they they go to the prison, they put phone booths, they put like tablets, and they pay for it. Prison doesn't pay for shit. They probably take a commission, I don't know what's their deal, and that company does everything. And so you want to come there, you have to build iPads or iPads, rugged, and like stations
12:06
Tenten Founder
in prison, you know, like those call box things, and put your software in it, and and then do the maintenance, send people when it's broken because a prisoner like fucking hit it. Very interesting.
12:25
Iman
And they can call anyone?
12:27
Tenten Founder
Anyone that's on that app. And in two two months. No, but you're not on that. Oh,
12:31
Iman
you're on that too. Yeah, I'm on. Yeah.
12:32
Tenten Founder
Can I see?
12:33
Iman
12:34
Tenten Founder
Yeah, but I'm logged out now because my friend is out.
12:36
Iman
12:37
Tenten Founder
Oh. We have to we have to get
12:37
Niclas
somebody on this.
12:38
Niclas
How how sad is it?
12:39
Tenten Founder
He'll probably go back soon. He's back. He's back.
12:41
Iman
12:43
Tenten Founder
Oh, it's just like a
12:43
Alex S
dumb dumb bullshit.
12:44
Tenten Founder
12:48
Tenten Founder
I really wanted to go into that business though.
12:52
Alex S
But I like your way of thinking about it.
12:53
Tenten Founder
You see, yeah, that's kind of like, that's your friends. Damn, yeah, okay.
12:56
Alex S
12:57
Tenten Founder
And then you like deposit money here.
12:59
Iman
Each friend has to deposit the money to talk to them.
13:01
Tenten Founder
Brilliant.
13:02
Iman
Yeah.
13:03
Tenten Founder
So I have to put ten bucks here, ten bucks here, ten bucks here.
13:05
Alex S
And there's nobody to talk to.
13:07
Tenten Founder
And when I talk,
13:09
Tenten Founder
basically it's taking from both sides. So if he sends me a message, it takes money from my account, from my.
13:14
Iman
But is it per character or can they send a long essay of like.
13:17
Tenten Founder
13:18
Alex S
13:18
Iman
13:19
Tenten Founder
Per character. No, per message.
13:20
Alex S
13:20
Iman
Okay, they can send a long message.
13:21
Tenten Founder
But I think they limit the number of characters per message. Like Twitter.
13:24
Alex S
13:25
Tenten Founder
And you cannot even Apple Pay on deposit. So it's like, fuck, you have to do the card and take out the card every single time. It's like, everything is shit. Everything is shit.
13:34
Iman
But how is the how is the onboarding? How can you match with your friend?
13:37
Tenten Founder
Match? You have to have like an inmate number that he sent me and find him and. It's really bad.
13:44
Iman
13:45
Tenten Founder
It's really bad.
13:45
Iman
How many jails are there, you know?
13:47
Tenten Founder
Um, this particular company I don't know. I knew I looked it up, but I don't remember. I think there's like a couple of them.
13:54
Iman
Is there a difference between prisons and jails?
13:56
Tenten Founder
Yeah, every prison is different. Every jail is different. Like there's another.
14:00
Iman
No, but prison and jails both have tablets now?
14:02
Tenten Founder
Yeah. Yeah.
14:04
Iman
But like what's the percentage of.
14:06
Tenten Founder
I have no idea because like he's in in um uh ICE detention. So it's a detention center. So it's like a low security prison. So he had the blue suit. The blue uh. Orange, orange.
14:15
Alex S
14:16
Tenten Founder
And orange is above and red is above. So I think I don't know what's in for like the reds. But in his jail, he was like mixed between the ICE jail and on the other side he saw like some orange people. But there was like.
14:27
Iman
But but who caps how much it costs per minute? Is it the app?
14:31
Tenten Founder
Yeah.
14:32
Iman
But it's but why don't they do ten dollars per minute?
14:34
Tenten Founder
I think they used to. And the Democrats like told them they could.
14:38
Iman
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So basically there is some government like uh ceiling.
14:42
Tenten Founder
Because they went crazy about. I heard when I looked, there's like articles about that company and they got like sued and shit because it was like two bucks a minute and they were like, no, no, you cannot do that.
14:52
Iman
But can the inmates still call with cellular?
14:55
Tenten Founder
No, it has to go through the app. Oh yeah, they can. No, basically, yeah.
14:58
Iman
So but wait, who who. It retains the data because the prisons have to retain data.
15:03
Tenten Founder
That's that's that's what we were talking, I don't know, because the the prison, it says the call is recorded, everything we say is recorded. So the prison probably owns the data.
15:12
Tenten Founder
And I don't know if the company still owns it or has to give it away. Yeah, I I
15:15
Alex S
I think they might be legally required to not sell the data.
15:20
Tenten Founder
Probably, it's like prison.
15:21
Alex S
15:21
Tenten Founder
15:21
Alex S
Because they got paid for it.
15:23
Tenten Founder
And they're like property of the government now. Yeah, yeah, right.
15:26
Alex E
But I I'm not sure if like like a government, there's contract, right? I'm not, did they did they write in the contract thinking of somebody would buy that data?
15:34
Tenten Founder
I don't understand.
15:35
Alex E
15:35
Iman
15:36
Tenten Founder
And the quality is shit, by the way. Like I could barely hear him, it's like not good. The quality is bad. Is it because they don't have internet in the prison?
15:42
Iman
15:44
Tenten Founder
They do have internet. Their shit is really bad. Like the product is so bad, they don't care, they make a buck a minute.
15:50
Iman
And they have, it's it's a monopoly.
15:52
Tenten Founder
Um, there's probably a few companies, like three, four, like, but there's like, we saw there's two million people total in jail. And I don't remember the different counts.
16:01
Tenten Founder
16:02
Iman
This is this is even crazier because I thought the two million number was correct. We looked it up as well. I thought they will probably talk for four hours a week or something because they'll have scheduled time. It's the money is the issue.
16:12
Tenten Founder
16:12
Iman
you're saying is basically, hear me out.
16:15
Alex S
16:15
Iman
What If you have the data rights for the shit, like the rights, the patent for the shit,
16:19
Tenten Founder
16:19
Iman
you would basically make it for free. So you would subsidize every inmate.
16:23
Tenten Founder
They would talk all day. They would talk all fucking day.
16:24
Iman
16:26
Tenten Founder
because he was so fucking bored.
16:28
Tenten Founder
He was bored.
16:30
Tenten Founder
Yeah, He was like, he wanted to talk for hours. I was like, man, it's costing me like a lot. Bye. Like bye.
16:36
Tenten Founder
But it's it's hard because...
16:38
Iman
So you didn't do it because it's hard to penetrate? Well, yeah, it's hard to penetrate.
16:41
Tenten Founder
There is like government bills, but you know, like at the end of like contracts, like five-year contracts with that company. So you have to wait for city prison one, the the the contract is ending in three years. I have no idea what's the deal. They've been together for like years or whatever. They have the infrastructure in the prison. They have the phones, they have the booths, they have everything. And also people, those people probably also sell like weapons and like, you know, for the prison, like the gloves that electrocute and like and like sticks. I don't know what they do, but they do a bunch of like shit like that. So usually they build around the prison. So the same company have different entities. One will sell like packaged food or pillows for the prison or shoes because there's a store in the prison too. You can like, my friend bought shoes there.
17:16
Tenten Founder
They're actually really cool. They're all white. Forty bucks. And they buy
17:33
Niclas
17:34
Tenten Founder
like toothbrush, shampoo, all that shit. So it's the same companies that like sell shoes, sell pillows, or like sell like over like like sweaters or whatever. And then communication. And so I don't I think they're going to be hard to... Can we talk to them?
17:47
Iman
No. No.
17:48
Tenten Founder
17:49
Tenten Founder
17:50
Iman
Do you know how to get in touch with them?
17:52
Tenten Founder
There's a bunch of like infos. If you want to buy data from them, probably. But if you want to compete with them...
17:57
Tenten Founder
And also that's what I was saying, what I'm scared of is those people are so um have been so invested in jail that they know the the
18:01
Tenten Founder
president of the jail, they know the cops, the judges and shit like that. I don't want to wake up one day, drive my car...
18:11
Niclas
In a trunk.
18:11
Tenten Founder
...and they put like a kilo of co- like I get arrested and the cop says there's a kilo of cocaine in my thing and end up in jail. Because they make money when people are in jail, you know?
18:20
Niclas
18:20
Tenten Founder
Yeah. Like the private jail, they make like 100k a year or some shit like that every time someone comes. So it's like in their interest to put people in jail. I just
18:27
Iman
don't want to... That's what my hunch is too. Like the unfortunate thing was you can go very aggressive, but like the system is so rigged that you like it's like this that you go in jail. And like now all of a sudden all the gates go open at one time and like four black dudes come sprinting in. It's like, oh, what happened? We don't know. Like something happened. Like that's what like trickles down very quickly.
18:42
Tenten Founder
18:42
Iman
18:48
Tenten Founder
They can, yeah, they can on the air, like you said, an error or something or...
18:50
Iman
Yeah, oh.
18:51
Tenten Founder
Like you're supposed to go to jail for one week and something changed and it's like for six months and your lawyer, they don't like...
18:57
Iman
No one can contact you, yeah.
18:58
Tenten Founder
I don't really want to do that.
19:00
Iman
Especially if not naturalized. I think if you were naturalized as a US citizen... Yeah.
19:03
Tenten Founder
19:04
Iman
...it would be a bit better. But if you're a bumfuck and like you have maybe a green card, maybe you have a visa, working visa, then it's hard.
19:09
Tenten Founder
They'll hold you in and they'll be like, okay, you know what, if you want to take a plea, take it and go back to your house. Yeah, but now you're in jail and you can never come back to your country.
19:15
Iman
19:16
Tenten Founder
I don't want to play with those guys.
19:17
Iman
19:17
Tenten Founder
It's too re- and there's so much money involved that it's a little too fucked up. But in general...
19:22
Iman
The interesting thing also that they sell prison by prison. I didn't know. I thought they would sell like in groups.
19:26
Tenten Founder
I think there is people that owns groups of prisons. So let's say uh...
19:30
Iman
But do they sell to them? That's what I want. But you said they sell per prison.
19:33
Tenten Founder
Yeah, but basically some every prison is different. And some group have like five prisons.
19:37
Iman
And some group
19:38
Tenten Founder
has one prison. So like... Yeah, there's different owners.
19:39
Iman
19:40
Tenten Founder
...so you have to find out who owns what. And then so what's the hottest territory in like let's say like people with the most inmate, like California, and then finding California. It's it's too much of a rabbit hole. And then the more you dig, the more you find like articles about like the shitty things they're doing. I don't want to be in the middle of that. Like I would like to profit from it.
19:57
Tenten Founder
20:00
Tenten Founder
But I don't want to be have those people like against me. You know, it's too.
20:06
Tenten Founder
20:09
Alex E
Understandable.
20:09
Tenten Founder
Yeah, it's so like you said, it's weird. There's a lot of stories about like, I
20:14
Tenten Founder
don't know, you want to deal with like a little country jail in some weird thing where all like all the cops know each other and then oh, your headlight is busted like. And the guy like actually smashed your headlight, you know?
20:25
Niclas
20:25
Tenten Founder
you're like, well, and then you cannot do anything.
20:29
Tenten Founder
And Yeah, it's not a good. But what I was saying is instead of trying to make apps,
20:32
Tenten Founder
we can find creative ways to get that data instead of just doing apps.
20:38
Alex S
But I like the thinking. Like
20:41
Alex S
the interview idea or...
20:43
Alex E
think the only, like the main reason we do it is
20:46
Alex E
I quality and scale. Because if we hit something that works, we can just one day say we want times the amount. And as long as we have like a scaling function...
20:57
Tenten Founder
That's what you should aim for. Like, but making a communication app that's actually working and scaling is very, very rare. Like, so it's like you can spend months trying and have like a little data instead of you can have...
21:12
Alex E
I mean, we have a good amount of data. We can rent out a barn.
21:14
Tenten Founder
21:14
Iman
The issue is also if you're like, let's say you give me, let's say you're the broker for prison data, okay? I come to you and I ask you how much data you have. You're going to tell me like, I don't know, I have million hours of data, okay? And I'm going to say, okay, how good is that? You're going
21:24
Iman
to tell me some bullshit metric of how good the data is, and I need to come in and verify that that data is good. Like, at the end level of this would be that I listen to every minute of the audio and I can verify if I need it or not. But if I get all the minutes of data from you, it would basically mean that you have to send it to me. So you have to have complete trust that I wouldn't like take it before I take it, which in this data market is like no one trusts anyone. So I would have zero idea if the data is good or not. I have zero control over it. I have zero idea if, to the scalability point, if I, let's say we suffice it with only English, American, like...
21:51
Iman
21:55
Iman
Prison data will probably be plus American or Hispanic, right? Like blacks or Hispanics, right?
22:07
Iman
Or more. I think it's like probably, right? There's only so much you need from every minority. So now I go in and I take all this stuff, okay, but I don't have like Asian. I don't have Russian. I don't have this. I don't have that. Do I go and creatively go about like every minor group like that? And then do I do it with every language? Now prison people...
22:14
Alex S
22:15
Iman
Prisoners are gonna talk about very similar things. They're gonna talk to their girlfriend about how they wanna fuck them. They're
22:33
Iman
gonna talk about their lawyer of like, how do I get out?
22:36
Tenten Founder
Eat shit in there, honey.
22:37
Iman
Eat shit in here. How do I get out?
22:37
Tenten Founder
22:38
Iman
If I hear like hours of that, it's like, okay.
22:41
Tenten Founder
And worse, my friend, if he was talking to me,
22:43
Tenten Founder
that that time would have been useless for you because we were speaking in codes. He was trying to like... Yeah, exactly!
22:47
Iman
22:49
Tenten Founder
22:50
Tenten Founder
22:51
Tenten Founder
...make me understand like, basically like, go in my phone and go delete some shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he couldn't say it, so he was like, remember that movie? That came out? And then like, he was saying some like keywords in words and I was like saying some other keywords. Like, if someone heard that thing, they would be like, who the fuck are those retards? Like, it doesn't make any sense. That made, that's so funny.
23:14
Iman
not saying you should buy data. Because buying data also,
23:15
Tenten Founder
those guys, they make it only, you know, how much can you buy the data from, you
23:17
Tenten Founder
No, I'm know, you're like You should give them million, they'll say yes, but before that it's not. What I'm saying is you can find creative angles to get the data you want. It depends how much you're willing to spend per hour of data, or, or, and how, like, what
23:23
Iman
23:23
Tenten Founder
would be the, of course, least as possible. But there could be, at first, just to get the ball rolling and to get data, some activation, you rent out a phone or a mic
23:27
Tenten Founder
and say free people. You talked to them about like all the hundreds of ideas we went through, like the creative type S ones
23:44
Iman
we did before, right? Like we didn't, we didn't start off building like couples app and that's it. Like the, the, the, the, I think you showed them, right? Like we talked like through like ways of how we thought about this. Like the easiest way would have been like, can we easily inject into this and do like, I think like the e-pal thing where, where Alex was like, there's like gamer girls that like pay, like there's dudes that pay gamer girls to play with, to play with them and talk to them. And if you subsidize it, then the gamer girls get paid, the
23:50
Iman
guys have, it's for free. Um, and they just call and you record it all. But then the issue is with like most of these things are that the data that comes out is too niche. Right? So like if you wanted like more broad, like just like let it rip kind of conversations and like usually uh human to human generalistic case, it's really hard to like get any type of that stuff. Gaming is easy, you just do Discord. Roleplay is easy, you just do Discord. Right? But like you don't want to do the easy things, you want to go to the hard things.
24:26
Alex S
24:27
Iman
24:38
Tenten Founder
24:38
Iman
24:40
Tenten Founder
24:40
Iman
24:42
Iman
24:45
Tenten Founder
It's always hard, it's like genuine conversation between friends.
24:48
Alex E
Yeah. Where, where do you have that?
24:50
Iman
24:50
Tenten Founder
And did you see what they're doing right now with the robots?
24:53
Tenten Founder
So they need to train robots. Same as you, they need to train about the movement. And what they're doing in China, in Chinese, they're taking... to put cameras,
25:00
Alex S
25:01
Tenten Founder
you know, and to like perform tasks in the house.
25:04
Alex S
Do you know Shift in New York?
25:06
Tenten Founder
No.
25:06
Alex S
They also like they offer free cleaning.
25:09
Tenten Founder
Yeah, I think yeah,
25:10
Tenten Founder
yeah, that's what they're doing right now. And...
25:13
Alex S
That's pretty smart.
25:14
Tenten Founder
It is pretty yeah, and you could apply that to audio in some ways like...
25:18
Alex S
25:18
Tenten Founder
but I don't know, the thing is...
25:21
Alex S
If you have like a wristband... Yeah. ...that you wear.
25:22
Tenten Founder
25:22
Alex S
25:23
Tenten Founder
Something like that or a necklace or some shit like that, you know, but you have to from the hardware you have to find the people and
25:29
Tenten Founder
and if you don't mind about having different people, let's say, let's say following a group of friends for a week or two weeks is good data. Perfect, perfect.
25:37
Iman
25:38
Tenten Founder
But then that could be an easy focus.
25:40
Alex S
25:41
Iman
25:42
Iman
In fact, when I was just talking before right now was like these two parts. One is like the noisy, always on, always with you kind of app data. That we were like working on. What we were talking about right now is one-to-one face value, groups of people in one conversation with little noise, long periods of time.
25:59
Tenten Founder
And two mics.
26:00
Iman
Two mics separated. That's like a different type.
26:03
Tenten Founder
26:03
Iman
But the other one, Because yeah, of course, if
26:05
Tenten Founder
you can build an app that works in that scale, that's the best because like you said you have two mics, you have two things, it's perfect, then you have them talk, but having them talk is very complicated. And when you think about like Google, and I think when I talk about ambition in general and I think about ambition, for me Google is like, they they was like okay, we want to do the maps, right? And we want to take pictures of like all streets to have a map where everything, every building is a picture. They got it, they like bought cars and installed cameras and had people driving all around the world and they took everything. It's like...
26:40
Niclas
You know, just to think about it
26:40
Tenten Founder
Yeah. and thinking it's possible to do that is crazy, you know? Oh, how do you want to take pictures of the whole world? Some people would find some crazy shit and like some... no, we're just going to build cars, put cameras and drive around and take pictures of everything and they did it, you know? And there must be a way not that expensive as that, but also with a percentage of success guaranteed. Because apps, you can hit, maybe you can hit it and make something big, but it's very hard and especially in communication. Like we got lucky with TenTen. Like yeah, we were pretty good, we were better than average and we had something that was a little different. But I'm not even sure
26:49
Alex S
that the data, if you get
26:49
Tenten Founder
to the scale of TenTen, we had million people and at the end we saw the stats on the servers, we had like hundreds of years of conversation. Like I did a
26:51
Tenten Founder
post about it, but I think...
26:57
Alex S
26:57
Tenten Founder
27:02
Tenten Founder
27:11
Alex S
27:12
Tenten Founder
27:16
Alex S
27:16
Tenten Founder
That was just the month or some shit. I I messed up on the post. I need to ask Jean or Axel what the stats are. But like the stats were, I didn't even, I thought that number was not true because it was so big,
27:39
Tenten Founder
you know? But I don't think that data was like qualitative, like relevant for you guys, for example.
27:45
Alex E
But for you, the cool thing is even if just like of those users would have had good conversations, it would be enough. Because
27:52
Alex E
there were so many.
27:53
Tenten Founder
Yeah, but for us, for Tantan to work was the stars were aligned, the good timing and the good thing and the good... Yeah, but I think we can make it work.
27:59
Alex E
28:01
Tenten Founder
You could probably do it, but...
28:03
Iman
But also I'm not sure if like the comparison is correct. I don't think we need to do it. To Niklas' point, we don't need to recreate Tantan.
28:10
Iman
We don't need to recreate Instagram.
28:11
Tenten Founder
Yeah.
28:11
Iman
If just if you can penetrate the one group of like long-distance relationship couples, like in the exact quality we need and make them retain, it's more than enough.
28:20
Tenten Founder
But how many do you need for how long?
28:22
Alex E
hours. hours?
28:24
Iman
Yeah.
28:24
Tenten Founder
28:25
Iman
The the first milestones you hit always with users. So that's not
28:29
Alex E
that many. That's really not that many. So yeah, it's couples.
28:31
Tenten Founder
Maybe like two or three million people.
28:34
Niclas
No, no, no.
28:34
Iman
The distribution is way more that you would want as little as possible for as many times as possible.
28:40
Tenten Founder
So couples and
28:43
Tenten Founder
28:44
Alex E
You have to imagine if they use it like for a month, which is obviously a lot, but like every single day they use it more, it's like incredibly valuable. And it's really not that many. There are like million couples. If we just penetrate like...
28:56
Niclas
Yeah, if we have couples that have
28:57
Alex E
28:58
Niclas
hours of talking.
28:59
Alex S
But that's always the pitch, right?
29:00
Tenten Founder
Or...
29:02
Tenten Founder
You go to China, you find a pangolin, and you start a new pandemic. If there's a new COVID, you guys are gonna... That's what I was thinking.
29:08
Iman
Good idea, bro.
29:11
Niclas
29:12
Iman
We should we should have something like locked and ready for if something like that breaks out that we have it like locked.
29:18
Niclas
29:19
Tenten Founder
Oh, be be prepared for a virus.
29:20
Niclas
Yeah, actually we should have... That's a good
29:21
Alex E
29:22
Niclas
idea in general, I think. I think I think I think just keep it on archive.
29:23
Iman
Just keep it on archive.
29:27
Niclas
That's true actually. In general, it's not a bad idea.
29:28
Tenten Founder
29:29
Niclas
Stock up on toilet paper already,
29:31
Niclas
stuff like that. True. You know my my plan...
29:33
Alex E
29:33
Niclas
Especially AI can engineer a virus in a couple months probably.
29:36
Tenten Founder
29:36
Niclas
buy a bunch of masks, so
29:37
Tenten Founder
And you you create the shortage of masks, so you can resell them.
29:39
Iman
This is all a joke for any any NSA listening to this. This is all a joke. We're not...
29:44
Niclas
We won't engineer the virus, we're just preparing.
29:46
Iman
No, it's all humor. I mean my plan...
29:48
Alex E
29:48
Iman
Please don't have a video. My plan was always like...
29:50
Alex E
Me too.
29:51
Iman
Really?
29:53
Alex E
Like having like three North Koreans and like lawyers. I think that's the best setup.
29:59
Alex E
I think that's like... way better. We can get all the data from Meta, Google.
30:03
Iman
No, but you know what the funny thing is? Like the if if the problem becomes so much easier the more you go away from America. Because in Singapore, I realized, or what I learned, that in Singapore everything is recorded. They don't really say it to the public. Every single like call you do in Singapore is recorded. Same as China, yeah.
30:22
Alex E
30:23
Tenten Founder
30:23
Iman
Uh, China is obvious because they really tell them. But Singapore has it. So if you know the like king of Singapore like rather well, or like the head of military, they will give you everything. Really?
30:33
Tenten Founder
30:34
Iman
30:34
Iman
Unfortunately the quality is not high. But like if if in any way they could have like a government like like app or something like that, and everyone uses it, they would have all data.
30:44
Tenten Founder
That's why China is going to win the AI race and is winning already. It's just there's so much data. Yeah, but it's Chinese, right?
30:48
Alex S
30:50
Tenten Founder
and also that's why Europe is going to lose because there's so much...
30:53
Alex S
I mean, that's anyway...
30:54
Alex S
30:55
Alex E
It's not part of the
30:56
Tenten Founder
30:56
Tenten Founder
Yeah, conversation. Like the only model we had was the French one, Mistral, was a joke. Yeah.
30:59
Alex S
31:00
Tenten Founder
The entire value of the company is what OpenAI spends on paper toilet.
31:04
Alex S
31:04
Tenten Founder
Yeah. And and they just pivoted. They stopped making models. Now they penetrate companies and provide other models. They they sell like OpenAI and shit like that too. It's a joke.
31:13
Alex S
It's like private like uh
31:15
Tenten Founder
31:15
Alex S
whatever. I don't know.
31:17
Alex S
GDPR compliance.
31:17
Iman
Yeah.
31:19
Tenten Founder
31:19
Alex S
But...
31:20
Tenten Founder
31:21
Tenten Founder
So stupid. They they they lost everything.
31:23
Alex S
But if you are like Palantir or something like
31:26
Alex S
that, I think you might have access to some of those.
31:30
Tenten Founder
Palantir, they have access to everything. And but what, because before you were there, we were talking about um
31:36
Tenten Founder
um where do you get that data from in general. And and and they were saying that um in case of an audit, the data has to be clean.
31:43
Tenten Founder
31:47
Tenten Founder
Yeah.
31:48
Iman
31:50
Tenten Founder
Who can audit? Why? How? And like...
31:54
Iman
I I know I've been through the exact same thing for like a like a very like specific time and like a long time. I only what what I heard, and this is from both lawyers and they're just pussies, but also from partners. Um, if someone wants to fuck you, they'll fuck you.
32:07
Iman
32:09
Tenten Founder
In no matter what?
32:11
Iman
Um, I don't know exactly. They will probably like at the limit like... But who is someone?
32:14
Tenten Founder
32:16
Iman
Um...
32:18
Tenten Founder
Like GDPR?
32:19
Iman
No, like if you get sued. Like if you get sued, then there's going to be a full audit log of like whatever they will find in due diligence of what you did. I don't think so.
32:26
Tenten Founder
32:27
Iman
And either either if you don't claim... that you have that data anymore or you claim and it's and they somehow figure out it was wrong. Let's say one of us snitches. Let's say one of us would come out and be like, oh, we actually had that data. And then you have some logs on your phone, on your laptop that still has like the files and then there's a line in the code that says, oh, remove everything before this. You're you we all go to jail. So the that I mean that's like the max risk of this. If something should like if you're a one-man show, like it's fine probably and you can like protect yourself. But like the higher the end, the higher it gets, like the harder it gets to like keep it in house, right?
32:49
Iman
33:04
Iman
33:06
Alex S
33:06
Tenten Founder
Because I got audited by by um like the GDPR police in France for Tantan. For Tantan.
33:11
Iman
33:12
Tenten Founder
33:13
Tenten Founder
And they're they're dumbasses. First they don't know anything about tech.
33:17
Iman
33:17
Tenten Founder
Yeah.
33:18
Tenten Founder
33:18
Iman
33:19
Tenten Founder
And and when I was when I was in the middle of that, so we had to make sure we're compliant. And they make it so it's impossible to be compliant. And the
33:26
Iman
only way to be compliant
33:27
Tenten Founder
is to have a team that was bigger than our entire company's team just to work on that thing, those tools, which is
33:34
Iman
You know what the funny thing about the US is? I think the US is not that far away from that. But the issue is that or the difference is that the outcome is so much bigger of like what you could like Meta. Like Meta is probably getting sued on like things at the same time right now, but it doesn't matter because of the scale that they're doing. Like you can send like, I don't know, if like you're making a billion on something, putting million into like lawyer fees because of like you bit is nothing. It's part of operating costs. It's marginal.
33:57
Tenten Founder
33:57
Iman
33:58
Tenten Founder
33:58
Iman
33:59
Tenten Founder
Yeah.
33:59
Iman
But if you're Tantan, you're making zero money or like you're making very little money and then you have to do the same thing, you're fucked. You're fucked. And and so when they audited me, they asked
34:04
Tenten Founder
to see a bunch of shit and everything. And and so I was talking with lawyers every day. I had like five, six lawyers in every single subject or whatever. And and so I had like a guy training our team
34:07
Tenten Founder
about because there's all the stupid shit about like what happens to a laptop because we had access to like users or whatever and all that shit. So he had to like I had to prove that I briefed my team about the GDPR or whatever. And so I was reading the laws and and learning about it. And it was the beginning of AI, uh the beginning of the big boom of AI. And uh I was reading about what they were putting in place for AI. And you know there is that that law that's um um uh what's it called like request my data, ask the company to delete the data. So legally any compa digital company, they any client sends you an email and be like, oh, I would like you to delete all the data. So you have to like
34:45
Tenten Founder
34:49
Alex S
34:50
Tenten Founder
34:57
Alex S
34:57
Niclas
34:57
Tenten Founder
So even for us was complicated because the data went to like Amplitude and stuff like that and the data was like raw and like not personalized so we couldn't know which one was what when it's in the in the mill, you know? So it's impossible to delete everything that comes from one person, but when it comes to training a a a model, the data turns into weights and turns into like things that you cannot extract anymore, so it's not possible, it's not possible to apply that law where like, let's say you talk to ChatGPT and then you're like delete everything that like the model already learned from it and cannot unlearn from it. And legally, it's not possible to follow GDPR if you do AI. It's not possible.
35:31
Alex S
35:31
Tenten Founder
35:33
Tenten Founder
35:37
Alex S
Yeah but but but that's what every company runs into. Like an early OpenAI model, um I put
35:40
Alex S
a task from my professor into and it had like the solution somewhere in the dataset and it spit it out exactly with the bra- um with the names and whatever. I only gave the- they gave it the task description and it was nowhere available and even I even asked my professor if he ever had given like some kind of permission for this solution to be part of any dataset or whatever and he
35:48
Alex S
was like no. Well that's that's so they just don't care and they also I mean they get sued but they kind of get away with it so...
36:16
Tenten Founder
Because they have no other way to do it. The law is not fair, it's not fair. The law cannot be applied and and because that's what they do in Europe.
36:22
Alex E
You should you should love it for like there's probably AI that will be punished by a reason somewhere. Hopefully.
36:28
Tenten Founder
They do it. I I...
36:29
Alex E
36:31
Tenten Founder
In the US, in that limit, it doesn't matter. No, in the US... In that limit, it doesn't matter.
36:32
Alex E
36:33
Tenten Founder
In the US, did you hear what Trump said?
36:36
Tenten Founder
He wants to push AI. He doesn't care. Push it, push it. They're not gonna sue. No, right now it's like the El Dorado. You can do whatever the fuck you want.
36:44
Alex E
36:44
Tenten Founder
We have two years left. Unless unless some people are like...
36:47
Tenten Founder
unless some people are like... unless you do bad with it. Let's say you get leaked and then there's a private conversation about a senator talking to his mistress that.
36:55
Tenten Founder
and you trained the data on
36:56
Iman
But that's different, like...
36:58
Tenten Founder
The what?
36:58
Iman
36:59
Tenten Founder
Then you get nuked. Then yeah, exactly. But if it's just like
37:02
Tenten Founder
microphone put it in bars like next to the peanuts.
37:06
Tenten Founder
Yeah.
37:07
Alex S
37:07
Tenten Founder
Yeah, if you don't get caught, you know.
37:10
Alex S
That's also an interesting idea, just putting microphones in bars.
37:14
Tenten Founder
You could.
37:15
Alex S
You could, yeah, why not.
37:16
Tenten Founder
And if if depends how much you're willing to pay for it, but you can pre-rent a bar or give free drinks to people that speaks to someone in that table, that table is free.
37:24
Tenten Founder
And you can have beers next to colleges and they
37:26
Tenten Founder
just have their normal talk and after a drink they forget there's a mic and it's... Completely natural.
37:31
Alex S
That's... I I like your thinking. But...
37:34
Tenten Founder
But... Those things are not scalable.
37:36
Alex S
Yeah.
37:37
Tenten Founder
But at the same times, you have to do things that don't scale at first, and then you get enough data, you think of something that scale, and...
37:44
Alex S
Yeah, yeah.
37:44
Tenten Founder
And then you...
37:45
Alex E
But like, this principle applies, like you can make software that doesn't scale. Like, like how how how do you scale like going to bars and placing microphones? Do you just hire employees after employees?
37:54
Tenten Founder
Well, first you try it, and then you see if the data is good. If the data is great, you find a way to scale it.
38:00
Tenten Founder
And if you cannot scale it, you scale it until you can, and then you find another
38:04
Tenten Founder
solution, and then another solution.
38:05
Alex S
In in in Germany we have NeoTaste, was an app, but... Yeah.
38:08
Niclas
38:09
Alex S
...kind of like went to restaurants in new cities, and city by city they hired a small team that went to all restaurants, pitched the idea, and if they were convinced, they added them.
38:20
Alex E
Yeah, I mean, it's possible, it's just operationally very heavy. It's like...
38:23
Tenten Founder
Uber.
38:24
Alex E
Yeah, it's operationally very heavy.
38:25
Tenten Founder
But they gave... because when they started, iPhone was just starting, right? So most people couldn't afford an iPhone.
38:30
Alex E
They go around with like people...
38:31
Tenten Founder
They gave iPhones to drivers as an incentive to like join the company, and they would like go manually do all this shit. And if they didn't do that job, Uber wouldn't have been possible.
38:40
Alex E
38:40
Tenten Founder
Yeah. And now they already have like...
38:42
Tenten Founder
Yeah, for sure.
38:42
Alex S
Now it's big enough.
38:43
Tenten Founder
And and also that's why you guys
38:46
Tenten Founder
have something. It's because it's not easy and you have like a a moat. And if there was no moat...
38:54
Alex S
Yeah.
38:54
Tenten Founder
...you would be dead already. Like there will be a million people working on the same thing and killing you. Because there is a moat, there is value to it.
39:02
Alex S
39:02
Tenten Founder
But the only way sometimes where is a moat is find creative and
39:05
Tenten Founder
crazy shit to do, you know? And then you look good on your guys' biopic.
39:11
Niclas
True.
39:17
Alex E
Do do you have a biopic? Huh?
39:19
Tenten Founder
39:19
Alex E
Do you have a biopic? Not yet.
39:20
Tenten Founder
Not yet.
39:21
Alex E
39:22
Tenten Founder
There will be one.
39:23
Alex S
Inshallah.
39:24
Tenten Founder
Inshallah, yeah. We'll see. What is a biopic?
39:25
Alex S
39:26
Tenten Founder
Biopic is like the movie Social Network and all those movies. Movie about you. It's like a movie about...
39:29
Niclas
39:29
Tenten Founder
Ah, okay, I see.
39:30
Alex S
39:32
Tenten Founder
Hopefully it won't be the same as the Theranos girl.
39:35
Niclas
Or the coming Zuckerberg movie, right? There's one coming that's like super bad. Oh yeah? Yeah, yeah, that was like...
39:39
Tenten Founder
39:40
Niclas
39:41
Tenten Founder
There's a Sam Altman one too. Really? Pretty good, yeah. I saw the trailer.
39:44
Niclas
Oh yeah. Yeah, I didn't see the trailer.
39:47
Tenten Founder
It looks interesting. It's probably not true at all, but it looks interesting.
39:50
Tenten Founder
Like same vibe as the Social Network.
39:52
Niclas
Okay. Will probably inspire the next generation of builders.
39:56
Tenten Founder
39:56
Niclas
39:57
Tenten Founder
But you have to do some crazy shit.
40:01
Tenten Founder
But if I were you, I would try everything. Yeah, maybe the couple thing is is a good thing.
40:05
Alex E
I can show you our list of ideas.
40:06
Tenten Founder
Then double down on it. Yeah.
40:07
Niclas
40:08
Alex E
It's just like so sad, like we have very cheap, like we can get a user probably for like sub one to two dollars.
40:15
Tenten Founder
With what? Like for the couple app?
40:16
Alex E
Yeah.
40:18
Tenten Founder
40:18
Alex E
So like for us it's like, if we want a hundred thousand, we just have to do the head math and like it's roughly there.
40:24
Niclas
Yeah, just improve retention.
40:25
Alex E
have to do that
40:26
Alex E
We would in the physical, like the the multiples would be tens.
40:30
Tenten Founder
But also for the couple app. So we talked about the K factor, right? Yeah.
40:34
Niclas
40:35
Tenten Founder
And because it's only one plus one, the K factor is maximum one, right? But if you put the app paid, so you say the app is unlock some crazy feature like or like nine ninety nine a month. And then invite someone to get that.
40:47
Niclas
40:48
Tenten Founder
Exactly. Then you tell them, okay, if you invite another couple, you get the feature for free. Or you know what I mean? So you incentivize, like you, I don't care about getting paid, right? So what you do is you put the you put a
40:57
Tenten Founder
paywall for them to be like to force them to an alternative to invite people and they think it's a bargain. Oh, fuck another couple.
41:06
Niclas
Yeah, I.
41:07
Tenten Founder
Instead of paying nine bucks, I'll invite two friends. You, it doesn't cost anything. Best case they pay nine bucks,
41:11
Tenten Founder
worst case it doesn't change anything and.
41:13
Alex E
I mean, we we had that discussion about exactly that. I think you said like, oh, with the quality, right?
41:20
Niclas
I mean, my my take on stuff like this is always that it's kind of like a easy way out. And I always like just just telling someone invite something, invite someone to unlock something new. Yeah.
41:31
Alex S
41:32
Niclas
And that it should be some core action of the app, like Tencent for example. You invite the people because the core action is fun with someone.
41:41
Niclas
It's like inherently fun to invite someone, that's why you invite someone. Yeah.
41:44
Alex E
41:45
Niclas
41:47
Niclas
And just inviting someone to unlock something felt felt to me always as like.
41:52
Alex E
41:52
Niclas
Cheating. As cheating and if and that there could be a better way for people to to to to let them invite someone organically because they want it.
42:01
Tenten Founder
Yes, but I understand that, like I understand, but you already have that. It's a couple app, so your your.
42:07
Niclas
I mean, if we can find anything else, then maybe that's a way.
42:09
Niclas
42:09
Tenten Founder
Your organic invitation is calling your plus one, is calling your girlfriend.
42:12
Niclas
Yeah.
42:13
Tenten Founder
But you have no reason to invite anyone else.
42:15
Tenten Founder
Why would you invite other people when you're a couple? But incentivize to invite another couple.
42:19
Niclas
Maybe like compare couple, maybe compare how good your relationship is, you know? Like that's the stuff the stuff I thought of first, but I I think you're kind of right. If if we don't land anywhere. There's no reason for us to not try this approach.
42:32
Tenten Founder
It's free, yeah, to try. Worst case you just A/B test it.
42:35
Niclas
Yeah.
42:36
Tenten Founder
And you release it to of the people.
42:38
Niclas
Yeah, it would be stupid to not try it if we don't have any alternative.
42:41
Tenten Founder
So if you get that user for one bucks, now you get it for cents.
42:45
Tenten Founder
Yeah. Because they invited another couple. And if they invite another couple, you get it for like seven cents.
42:49
Alex E
42:49
Tenten Founder
Yeah. Ten cents.
42:50
Alex E
It just, the product has to be so good
42:52
Tenten Founder
42:52
Alex E
that if one long distance relationship talks to another long distance relationship,
42:57
Alex E
they have to mention the app because it's so good.
43:00
Niclas
43:00
Alex E
That's another thing. Yeah. Because that's like the best, and obviously we'll do that as like a second or like a second tier, but like I guess that's the first, the higher value. Or like, cause cause let's say...
43:11
Niclas
But I think that's given, right? We want to make the product good either way.
43:15
Niclas
And if it's good enough, they will talk about it, but...
43:17
Tenten Founder
Yes, but realistically you'll have a retention problem. So your goal is to have that one hour, like you want to like get that hours, let's say.
43:24
Alex E
Why do you think we will have a like retention problem realistically?
43:27
Tenten Founder
Because every problem, every product has a retention problem at one point, you know, maybe a couple breaks down or maybe your service is not better than FaceTime or whatever. So if you think pessimistically... But let's do the
43:36
Alex E
math. Like let's say we we have like a limited limited team capacity. And we can either optimize retention or we can optimize the like the K-factor. Like a couple that calls for a week versus a couple that calls like a for a day. Like if like you have
43:42
Tenten Founder
to invite so
43:42
Alex E
many more people to compensate for a couple that calls a week. Because every single day is almost like the value just getting more. So like for us retention is even even more important than like the the K-factor
43:46
Tenten Founder
is good, but it has to be so
43:46
Alex E
much higher to like compensate the retention. Because every single day is almost like acquiring a user that is just on there for one day.
44:04
Tenten Founder
44:05
Alex E
44:16
Tenten Founder
44:16
Tenten Founder
Yeah. Yeah, but the thing is, okay, objective number one is have them speak hours. Right?
44:20
Alex E
44:21
Niclas
44:21
Tenten Founder
So you don't care after that. You know, you're trying to get...
44:24
Niclas
Yeah, I guess it's enough if they are on the app for a month or a couple weeks, two weeks. then again...
44:28
Alex E
44:29
Niclas
Then we can lose them, yeah, but
44:30
Tenten Founder
If the goal is to get hours per user for users, it's pretty easy if you break it down like that. You're like, okay, I need users and I need all of them to speak hours. So okay, how can I push them for that hours? If they stay longer than hours, then it's golden. But what you want is to keep them for like hours, let's say it's three weeks, right? And and what can you build to make them last three weeks? You know, so your whole onboarding is three weeks. Instead of thinking of the onboarding as like five minutes or three minutes, your onboarding is three...
44:44
Alex S
44:44
Tenten Founder
44:48
Niclas
44:49
Tenten Founder
44:51
Tenten Founder
45:00
Tenten Founder
Like, how can you push them
45:02
Alex S
45:02
Tenten Founder
to talk for like those three weeks? And then after you just drop it, you know, you don't care and you focus on the key factor to get as many people as you can to talk for three weeks.
45:09
Niclas
45:09
Alex S
Yeah. Is there any way to incentivize them with a gift card or something like that if they haven't called for like two days, uh, to get them back in the app?
45:19
Niclas
I think that's a bad product design. The problem with that is if it's too incentivized, then
45:22
Tenten Founder
you won't get good quality call. Maybe they'll just put the phone on for two hours. They'll just let the phone on for two hours and get the
45:25
Alex S
gift card, you
45:26
Tenten Founder
know? Like you want them to actually be speaking. So how can you move that onboarding process instead of thinking as the onboarding as just name, picture,
45:29
Niclas
and whatever, how can that
45:29
Niclas
last for three weeks?
45:30
Tenten Founder
45:34
Alex S
45:34
Niclas
45:34
Tenten Founder
45:46
Alex S
I mean you have to, I don't know, understand the relationship or
45:53
Alex S
maybe... I mean we are already in the
45:55
Niclas
process of having this, right? With the streak, gradually unlocking stuff in the app. The most fun game, which is the spicy one, just unlocks after a couple days. Yeah, that's good.
46:05
Tenten Founder
46:06
Niclas
You gradually unlock the widgets, the call diary, all of that stuff.
46:12
Niclas
Together with async stuff they do in the app. I think we'll actually add a pretty good like...
46:18
Alex E
Yeah, I think we're
46:19
Niclas
46:19
Alex E
new data coming in like next week. But
46:20
Niclas
the retention idea is really good for the engagement.
46:22
Tenten Founder
gonna see But I would work on asynchronous, like just, okay, how can we bring these people on the app? And once they're on the app, it's way easier to convert them into a phone call than if they're not on the app because if
46:28
Tenten Founder
they're not on the app, we don't have control over what they do, you know? So like astrology thing, I think it's great.
46:35
Niclas
That's super good. You send them a notification
46:36
Tenten Founder
every day with like some like stupid sentence, like, oh my god, today is gonna be like, I don't know, some stupid shit. They each have a different sentence. And if she goes on his profile,
46:39
Tenten Founder
she can see what his. So she'll check his. My girlfriend checks my shit every day. She goes on CoStar and she checks my sentence. And one day I had, you can love two people at once. She was like, the fuck? What do you mean? She's like, yeah, do you love another person? I'm like, what the fuck? What did I
46:44
Niclas
do? She's like, yeah, it says
46:45
Tenten Founder
on your CoStar. Do you know what I mean? They take it very seriously. And then if she plays that game, you'll do the same thing. You'll give your girlfriend shit, you know?
46:50
Niclas
46:51
Tenten Founder
46:56
Niclas
46:57
Tenten Founder
46:59
Tenten Founder
47:08
Niclas
47:09
Tenten Founder
47:14
Niclas
I love this. Stuff like this would never come up in SF.
47:18
Alex E
No, no. It's so
47:20
Niclas
47:21
Tenten Founder
interesting. Astrology is great. The immigration quiz is amazing.
47:26
Alex E
47:27
Niclas
What, what?
47:28
Tenten Founder
Immigration quiz, basically. Yeah, yeah, like...
47:29
Niclas
47:29
Tenten Founder
test how how
47:31
Niclas
well do you really know the person you're with.
47:32
Tenten Founder
Yeah, like test test your relationship or whatever. And then...
47:36
Niclas
47:36
Tenten Founder
47:37
Tenten Founder
47:37
Niclas
Oh, interestingly, we had we had we had a format in the app at first that analyzed what the couple was talking about.
47:42
Tenten Founder
Yeah.
47:42
Niclas
And then gave them a report at the end. Okay.
47:44
Tenten Founder
47:45
Niclas
Saying, you are like compatible, this person is funnier, this person is smarter.
47:50
Tenten Founder
47:51
Niclas
But they actually thought this feature was, they didn't like the feature because one person was always the losing one.
47:56
Niclas
Yeah.
47:57
Tenten Founder
47:58
Niclas
And then this person got mad, especially if the if the losing person was the girl.
48:01
Tenten Founder
Yeah.
48:01
Niclas
She got mad in the call and said, oh my god, let's switch to FaceTime, I hate this. Okay.
48:04
Tenten Founder
48:05
Niclas
Super interesting. But that's a different, that's a different thing. If you want
48:07
Tenten Founder
that feature for something else, girls
48:11
Tenten Founder
love to be right.
48:12
Niclas
Yes.
48:14
Tenten Founder
And they have the memory of an elephant. Right?
48:17
Niclas
48:17
Tenten Founder
This guy understands it.
48:18
Niclas
And and and
48:19
Tenten Founder
sometimes, all my exes
48:21
Tenten Founder
were like that. It's like, you said that thing six months ago. And then I'm like, what
48:26
Tenten Founder
do you mean? And then she goes to the chat, scrolls for five hours and finds the message where you said something.
48:30
Tenten Founder
Oh, you can do
48:36
Niclas
that without call diary. Yeah, if there's a call
48:38
Tenten Founder
diary, she can be like, oh...
48:40
Niclas
She can even ask Cupi.
48:42
Tenten Founder
Yeah, she can research. What did I say six months ago? She can research the conversation.
48:45
Tenten Founder
And then you're like, you see? I told you
48:47
Niclas
48:47
Tenten Founder
six months ago. And if you have that feature...
48:49
Niclas
It's like it's like the one app you showed us before, uh, where they... The roll back. They they put the phone on the table.
48:56
Tenten Founder
Oh, yeah, that thing. Yeah.
48:57
Niclas
Yeah, I mean that also for like real life receipts, right? Yeah. It's kind of the same same thing.
49:00
Tenten Founder
49:01
Niclas
49:01
Tenten Founder
But what's interesting in couple situation is if you have that, like the recap, like those meet calls, like you said, the summary...
49:07
Niclas
49:07
Tenten Founder
49:08
Niclas
Yeah.
49:09
Tenten Founder
...it's an incentive to use that instead of FaceTime. Because you know that whatever you said, you can scroll back. And if she wants to start shit, let's say she thinks that the boyfriend is cheating...
49:18
Niclas
It's a trade-off between it being creepy to that, because oftentimes they also, like the first reaction is always, oh my god, are they listening to us?
49:26
Alex E
It's a bit like Zenly and sharing location back then. It's like they are very, very cautious about recording.
49:31
Niclas
You you lose like around, I would say you lose half of the users if you if you put in a feature like that. That's, for example, if if they wouldn't be able to disable it. Um, obviously the half
49:41
Niclas
that you do get, they are probably more engaged, but the other half you lose because they think it's...
49:46
Tenten Founder
Well, it has to be the toggle in there. Just way.
49:48
Niclas
market it in a certain
49:48
Tenten Founder
Exactly. Right now it's like that.
49:49
Niclas
49:51
Tenten Founder
If you market it that way, let's say you do TikToks or whatever, and you say like for couples, like you talk to girls,
49:56
Tenten Founder
and like that's the pain point, like you know, like you know that... Like I don't know, could could get back to a conversation and he told you that six months ago, now you can prove it. Because if you're like couples, you're speaking on that app, you can prove that. Ah, just toggle in, toggle off, whatever, you know, like you you sell it like that as a feature.
50:11
Niclas
Yeah, may- maybe it's actually better. Right now it's like this, it's on by default and it's like opt out. Mhm.
50:14
Tenten Founder
50:15
Niclas
Um, maybe it's actually a better approach to make it opt in and present it like in a nice way in the app so that the decision themselves.
50:20
Niclas
people feel like they make the
50:21
Niclas
Yeah, so package it as a use case, you put
50:22
Tenten Founder
it opt in. Yeah.
50:24
Niclas
50:24
Tenten Founder
And then the girls are gonna wanna try it and at least you get people through the door. If they use it or not, you don't care because they'll be talking on the on the app.
50:31
Niclas
Yeah, that's that's interesting perspective.
50:32
Alex S
just pitch it as FaceTime, but
50:36
Alex S
You can I don't know if if there's at some point trouble or disagreement what about what was said, there's a clear log and you you can always
50:44
Niclas
Yeah.
50:44
Alex S
Yeah, that's that's
50:45
Niclas
that's already the
50:46
Tenten Founder
50:47
Alex S
50:48
Tenten Founder
Or like all the features that would um augment
50:52
Tenten Founder
If enabled. a conversation with your girlfriend. But it's better on the girl side. Like if you target the girls. Oh, yeah.
50:57
Niclas
50:58
Tenten Founder
Because your girl tell you okay, we should go there.
51:00
Alex E
You'll do it.
51:00
Niclas
51:00
Tenten Founder
Yeah, you'll do it, fuck it, you know. But if you say let's go there, she'll be like why?
51:04
Alex S
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
51:05
Niclas
That that that's why the app looks the way it does.
51:06
Tenten Founder
51:07
Niclas
It's like super cute and If you talk
51:08
Tenten Founder
to the girl, then it's fine.
51:10
Alex S
Yeah.
51:11
Alex S
51:12
Niclas
The pitch It looks like it looks like a place for girls.
51:14
Tenten Founder
Yeah, but you can also have one interface for men and one interface for girl if you want. You can make the guy the onboarding
51:19
Niclas
True. The guy has like the complete dark mode. Yeah, you can
51:20
Tenten Founder
have something more manly and the girls like super girly, you know, like uh That's funny.
51:25
Niclas
51:27
Tenten Founder
51:27
Alex S
Question. Custom interface based on gender.
51:30
Tenten Founder
And also there was one thing that was missing in TenTen
51:33
Tenten Founder
and uh that's what I was working on. It's
51:37
Tenten Founder
so same thing, we were like focused on retention and and why um do you guys still have Facebook?
51:42
Tenten Founder
No.
51:46
Alex S
Not really. I mean I have an account.
51:47
Tenten Founder
Do you have an account?
51:48
Alex S
51:49
Tenten Founder
I have an account, yeah. Do you have an account? Yeah.
51:50
Niclas
51:50
Tenten Founder
Do you have an account? Yeah. I mean do you have the like a login, you know?
51:55
Alex E
51:55
Tenten Founder
Did you delete it?
51:56
Alex E
No. No.
51:57
Tenten Founder
Why didn't you delete it? Well, I because I never do.
51:59
Alex S
52:01
Alex E
Forgot.
52:02
Niclas
Um, because of Instagram, I guess. In some way.
52:05
Tenten Founder
52:05
Niclas
52:06
Tenten Founder
Maybe most people in general is because you have invested in it and some people don't erase because you have past conversations.
52:12
Niclas
Some cost, yeah.
52:13
Tenten Founder
That you, yeah, exactly. And and the problem with TenTen because it was all live, ephemeral.
52:17
Alex E
52:18
Niclas
Oh.
52:19
Tenten Founder
If you delete the app, it won't change anything in your life because you haven't you haven't
52:24
Niclas
52:25
Tenten Founder
built up any product. So I wanted to do more asynchronous stuff.
52:28
Tenten Founder
And and so like let's say couples, like you did Interesting. So what what what do you do? with the screenshot thing and like memories...
52:32
Alex E
Maybe we can show you...
52:32
Tenten Founder
52:33
Alex S
52:34
Tenten Founder
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to have like a... even the shared album, like pictures album in that app. Yeah.
52:38
Alex S
52:38
Tenten Founder
You want to have like a... like an... like a place where you can both put pictures, she can send you nudes securely in the... in the app. Like something, you know?
52:49
Niclas
Interesting.
52:50
Tenten Founder
52:50
Alex S
Like you... you can also...
52:52
Alex E
Like a vault for nudes.
52:53
Niclas
Just every day it asks you for your for
52:55
Niclas
a perfect picture and... You have a vault?
52:57
Tenten Founder
Yes, I... I launched an app, a vault.
52:59
Alex E
For nudes?
52:59
Tenten Founder
No, yeah, general, like a vault. And like basically you enter the app and you can have
53:04
Tenten Founder
any... the number of vaults you want. Every... every vault is a different password. So you can have A, B, C as password one... Is it open globally?
53:11
Tenten Founder
53:11
Tenten Founder
...one, uh, uh, C, D is another vault. It's called Droplock. Droplock?
53:16
Niclas
Droplock.
53:18
Alex S
53:19
Tenten Founder
Um, I still need to like make it better, it's pretty recent.
53:21
Alex S
53:22
Niclas
Bro, I... I
53:22
Alex S
love your design so much.
53:23
Tenten Founder
53:25
Alex S
Thank you. What's called Droplock?
53:26
Tenten Founder
Droplock.
53:28
Alex S
Uh, sometimes you can also just play with people...
53:31
Alex E
Yo, what is Ginto?
53:33
Tenten Founder
It's a party game.
53:34
Alex E
Oh. It's a bit like... okay, splash like... interesting.
53:38
Niclas
Oh, that's the one I saw on your... on your phone.
53:40
Tenten Founder
53:41
Alex S
53:41
Tenten Founder
Yeah. It's pretty fun too.
53:42
Alex S
What... what Zach did when he... when he had the alarm clock app, uh, the marketing that was actually quite successful is Apple's alarms... Apple alarms like don't ring, but they sometimes...
53:53
Alex S
Yeah, yeah. ...don't ring. And that's like statistically it's like never happens, but people have the fear and people have parted somewhere. You can just play with that fear and market on that.
54:04
Tenten Founder
Yeah, of course. Interesting.
54:05
Alex S
Yeah. Like you can also market on, I don't know, FaceTime is not secure or there are new EU guidelines or new US guidelines that... uh...
54:14
Tenten Founder
Who wouldn't pay on security against Apple?
54:16
Alex S
Yeah, I don't
54:17
Alex S
54:18
Niclas
but... but people
54:18
Alex S
know, tend to believe stuff like that.
54:20
Tenten Founder
Same as you.
54:21
Niclas
Is it... is it AI also?
54:22
Tenten Founder
Yeah, same as... Sick. Awesome.
54:23
Niclas
54:24
Tenten Founder
Um, I... I did the logo and I put it on Gemini.
54:28
Niclas
That's the way, bro. Animators are sadly cooked.
54:31
Tenten Founder
Yeah, everyone's cooked. Even the world is cooked.
54:32
Niclas
We're... we're all...
54:33
Tenten Founder
Yeah, our days are numbered.
54:36
Alex E
By the way, I just like... uh, it's not really that good, but I was just curious because I... because I saw like Rife uh released like an MCP and I just said create a loot box. It's not good, but I think if the prompt would be... Wait, it's pretty good.
54:47
Tenten Founder
Huh?
54:48
Alex E
54:49
Tenten Founder
What's the problem? The design?
54:51
Alex E
The... I mean it has... it's not perfect. No. It has some overlay issues, like with the Z layer. You see where the jewel... some...
54:58
Tenten Founder
Yeah, but that you can fix. Yeah, yeah, obviously.
54:59
Alex E
I mean it's okay.
55:01
Tenten Founder
But if he did something, you know?
55:03
Tenten Founder
Yeah, yeah. Then you just have to be like, oh.
55:04
Alex E
So maybe I'm already too like, my bar is too high.
55:08
Tenten Founder
We will get to that where one day it will be good. Yeah, yeah, obviously.
55:11
Tenten Founder
It's also useful for us actually that it's not that good yet.
55:15
Niclas
Oh, you're asking for full access? Yeah, because we ask to remove
55:17
Tenten Founder
there, but we don't store anything. Yeah, yeah. That's what everybody says. That's what everybody says.
55:20
Alex E
55:22
Niclas
You can just do selected access.
55:22
Tenten Founder
Yeah.
55:23
Alex E
55:24
Niclas
55:24
Alex E
55:25
Niclas
Yeah, you can just do limited access. I don't have
55:26
Tenten Founder
any... honestly on those things, we charge for it, so...
55:31
Alex E
Uh...
55:32
Niclas
It says grant full access now.
55:33
Alex E
Do you have like a good amount of users on there?
55:36
Tenten Founder
Not yet. We have like...
55:38
Alex E
Because I was gonna ask how you market it.
55:39
Niclas
55:40
Tenten Founder
We just started it. Oh, you just started.
55:41
Alex E
55:42
Niclas
What's like the use case exactly?
55:45
Tenten Founder
So there's a bunch... it's like when you... but it's kind of counterintuitive now because we ask for the thing and we shouldn't. I don't remember why we ask for it.
55:54
Tenten Founder
I know I didn't want to ask for the permission because we want to be
55:57
Niclas
55:58
Tenten Founder
like fully thing. But I think it's because when you add a picture to your vault, we ask if you want to delete it in the original vault and the only way to do that is to give access.
56:09
Niclas
Okay.
56:10
Tenten Founder
So let's say your girl, or you have a girlfriend, and she has new pictures and she sends you new pictures. You don't want those pictures to remain in your phone because your mom, your sister...
56:19
Niclas
56:19
Niclas
Oh, I put them in the hidden folder. I do it too.
56:21
Tenten Founder
56:22
Niclas
Yeah.
56:22
Tenten Founder
But sometimes also in the hidden folder, let's say you hide it from the person next to you, your girlfriend or whatever.
56:28
Niclas
Yeah.
56:28
Tenten Founder
You want to separate everything. Like on my hidden folder I have my ex, I have my recent. So like I would want a vault...
56:35
Niclas
Okay, I see.
56:36
Tenten Founder
...per person.
56:37
Niclas
56:38
Tenten Founder
56:38
Niclas
I see. So you want a place where she sort of also knows that it's there and can also access it?
56:43
Tenten Founder
Well, yeah, we have shared folders. So like we're building...
56:46
Tenten Founder
we just started, like right now the paywall is not that good, there's a bunch of things that are like...
56:49
Alex E
I mean you probably should ask the delete permission only once the user deletes, right? Mhm.
56:53
Tenten Founder
56:54
Niclas
I once had a similar idea where I thought I could maybe have an AI analyze all of the images in your gallery and then sort them by sort of people. This is really what
57:02
Tenten Founder
I'm doing too.
57:03
Niclas
So that you have like a folder for each friend.
57:07
Tenten Founder
57:07
Niclas
That's what I'm doing. And then you have a shared folder with the friends.
57:09
Tenten Founder
It's literally the app I'm working on.
57:10
Niclas
Every photo that has two of you guys in there automatically puts it in the folder.
57:15
Tenten Founder
Yeah. I'm doing a phone cleaner.
57:17
Niclas
57:17
Tenten Founder
Yeah. And that's one of the features.
57:18
Niclas
57:19
Tenten Founder
That's... And I built the whole recognition model
57:21
Niclas
57:22
Tenten Founder
by myself on Colab.
57:24
Niclas
It works?
57:25
Tenten Founder
57:25
Niclas
57:26
Tenten Founder
Yeah, of course. Like I had to fine-tune it because sometimes like people with sunglasses didn't work, so I did that with...
57:31
Tenten Founder
Pets and people. So like you have pictures, but when you want to look at like, I have like pictures on my phone. of them are bullshit.
57:37
Niclas
I thought it would be too not feasible because it would take too long to analyze the images. So fast.
57:41
Tenten Founder
Really? So fast.
57:42
Niclas
But doesn't...
57:43
Tenten Founder
57:43
Alex S
57:45
Tenten Founder
Because it's local. Yeah, right. And now you can too.
57:46
Alex S
do with Apple Intelligence
57:47
Tenten Founder
57:48
Alex S
Yeah, you can also search. But like what we did as a personal agent app, we also requested photo access and then it looked through the most recent photos and the tags. And then for example... In text? The tags, like
58:00
Tenten Founder
58:00
Alex S
after the tags, all the images internally. Oh, okay. Metadata.
58:04
Tenten Founder
58:06
Alex S
Yeah, yeah, metadata, right. But like with AI probably. Okay.
58:09
Tenten Founder
58:10
Alex S
And for example, there was like a fire, like some photos of a fire, of one evening where we were like... Oh, it's already in the metadata?
58:17
Tenten Founder
58:18
Tenten Founder
58:18
Alex S
Yeah. And we could proactively send those images in the chat with a message like, oh look, like last week you were at the fireplace and it was super nice. That's crazy. And this was like a great retention mechanism to get people back on the app. Why?
58:35
Tenten Founder
58:37
Alex S
Because they thought it was like an interesting memory or interesting that the agent came up with it in the chat.
58:42
Tenten Founder
As a memory?
58:43
Alex S
Yes, as kind of a memory, but like proactively sent.
58:46
Alex E
Maybe it's like Snapchat memories where, I'm not sure if I, it's like Snapchat memories where like, oh, last year... Last year this day.
58:51
Niclas
Yeah.
58:52
Alex E
58:52
Niclas
Oh, my girlfriend sends me these all the time. Yeah.
58:54
Tenten Founder
58:55
Niclas
Whenever they pop up, she sends me them. Just old images.
58:58
Tenten Founder
But Apple has that feature. Basically what I did is...
59:01
Niclas
Oh, true, true. Yeah.
59:02
Tenten Founder
...people and pets. But some of them are not that well done.
59:06
Alex E
Yeah, the image recognition is not working well.
59:08
Tenten Founder
But basically Apple in those things, they do a lot of things and people just want standalone from their features. So you take a few of their features and you just build a standalone. True. It works.
59:18
Tenten Founder
True.
59:19
Niclas
59:22
Tenten Founder
But your angle is a little more complicated. Yeah.
59:26
Alex E
59:27
Tenten Founder
Because you need to get like, everything is built to get that data from the...
59:30
Niclas
Yeah, we have like constraints. I kind of find it fun.
59:31
Alex E
59:32
Tenten Founder
59:32
Niclas
The constraints are also good because sometimes you feel like there's
59:35
Tenten Founder
59:35
Niclas
too much shit to do. Yeah.
59:36
Tenten Founder
59:37
Niclas
59:37
Alex E
like one of our constraints is like,
59:41
Alex E
Because get two people to talk. So I think we are providing a lot of value. Because we get like relationships, like actually... Yeah.
59:48
Alex E
People talking. They don't hang on Instagram, they actually...
59:50
Niclas
In the chat, like literally people have the time of their lives because they meet the creator. It's so cool.
59:55
Iman
Do you show the top right?
59:57
Iman
Yeah, yeah.
59:57
Alex E
59:58
Niclas
We show them, yeah.
59:59
Alex E
60:00
Niclas
60:00
Alex E
Yeah, the one where They were there like he's screaming Yeah, yeah.
60:02
Niclas
60:03
Tenten Founder
like he's crazy. But that's a great idea. Yeah, yeah.
60:04
Alex E
60:04
Niclas
60:05
Tenten Founder
That's a great thing. Top right one, right?
60:06
Iman
60:06
Alex E
Yeah, we showed him. As well.
60:07
Niclas
60:08
Alex E
He's like, look, look at this guy. In his ear.
60:09
Alex S
60:10
Alex S
60:10
Niclas
60:11
Alex E
Yeah. (Screaming) Happiest moment in his life.
60:12
Tenten Founder
60:17
Alex E
60:18
Tenten Founder
So there was the the data from that is not good enough? Like there's not Not enough volume.
60:21
Niclas
No, of course,
60:21
Alex E
you just need to scale it. Yeah, but but how do you scale it?
60:22
Niclas
60:22
Alex S
60:23
Tenten Founder
There there aren't so many streamers
60:25
Alex S
60:26
Niclas
Like you you can do the math in your head like to do it.
60:28
Alex E
There are less streamers than you think there are, so
60:30
Niclas
But hold on, there was
60:31
Alex E
also, sorry, the I mean, both of those things coexist. Like this is a cool thing to exist, and if there's a big streamer that does it, it's perfect. But it's like not a like execution type thing where you just like put a bunch of money in it and it just grows because there's a finite amount of rooms you want to tap into.
60:34
Iman
Like the incredible thing about this is um basically every like streamer almost has like its own tribe. So the way like the top left one, the Kaisanat's brother talks versus the top right, Bruce, versus the Brady, they have complete different humor, complete different way of saying it. The top left one, they bully each other the whole time, but it's like a sign of like friends. But the Bruce one is way more civilized, way more clear. The Brady one just says some shit I don't understand. And so if like it's almost like the almost like the final Turing test for a social intelligent model is that can I drop it into Kaisanat's chat and understand what's going on? It can like participate. Like it can basically go into Brady's call and like participate, understand the in-group, understand how it works. That's why it's just incredible. But unfortunately streamers are just like, it's not it's it's just not scalable to that level that QPS. But it's still incredible.
61:02
Iman
61:05
Iman
61:10
Alex S
61:11
Iman
61:41
Iman
61:42
Tenten Founder
61:43
Tenten Founder
yeah, but it's it's also um
61:47
Tenten Founder
Well, if you take Germany, there is a bunch of streamers. If you take US, there's a bunch of streamers. If you take uh and they spend hours on those streams.
61:53
Alex S
61:54
Tenten Founder
Yeah. So it's it's supposed to be good uh
61:56
Iman
It's it's like a perfect one if we have like an intern that's and like loves streamers and like wants to hang out and like donate a shit ton
62:03
Iman
and like clip it and like send it viral viral through TikTok. We don't we don't I don't think we did any clip like we did any like
62:08
Niclas
We we didn't do clipping, no.
62:10
Iman
Yeah.
62:10
Tenten Founder
Yeah, we haven't even marketed yet.
62:12
Alex E
62:12
Niclas
No, no, no, just did donations.
62:15
Niclas
That's it.
62:16
Tenten Founder
62:16
Niclas
It's worth it's worth And it was it was like a referral thing where they just one one streamer got like connected you to another one and then they tried them and
62:24
Alex E
But like every day there are relevant streamers only for like maybe like relevant for us right now. Really?
62:35
Tenten Founder
62:36
Alex E
Yeah. 'Cause they 'cause we did the conversion rate out of a thousand viewers, ten join.
62:45
Alex E
Or like let's say even it's fifty.
62:47
Niclas
Because it's hype, because they have to show themselves and... So like if you have a...
62:50
Niclas
you mean the...
62:50
Tenten Founder
62:52
Tenten Founder
Oh, when you say viewers is the fans.
62:54
Alex E
62:54
Niclas
62:54
Alex E
Yeah. If you have a stream with like viewers, only five will join it.
62:58
Tenten Founder
Yeah, they're scared.
63:00
Niclas
63:00
Tenten Founder
They're like naked next to their keyboard, on their shitty bedroom.
63:03
Niclas
They jerked off ten minutes ago.
63:04
Tenten Founder
Full of Doritos.
63:06
Niclas
63:06
Tenten Founder
Yeah, they have the moisturizer next to the desk and the toilet paper or whatever.
63:11
Niclas
63:12
Alex E
So you have to get the really big ones.
63:15
Iman
Like I think like it's also part of that. If you go into Kai Cenat's chat and you type it for like an hour, I think you get more traction than...
63:21
Niclas
63:22
Niclas
Bro, then we've won, but Kai Cenat is... he's playing in
63:24
Alex E
another league right now. If we get like a...
63:25
Niclas
63:26
Alex E
these are like...
63:27
Iman
But I don't think it's that far away. It's like you have to convince them this is like a content thing that the users want and you can like build throughout.
63:34
Iman
Like I think the hard part of being Kai Cenat is if you do like a 30-day stream, which he sometimes does, or like whatever this...
63:40
Niclas
Yeah, if he does that, that's true. So then he just needs to fill the
63:41
Iman
hours. So whatever you can give him to fill hours that has the potential to be clipped is great. So they go on Omegle, they go on this, they go on that, they like basically go on top of the other platforms to make content that they can like do. Or if they get very creative, they like they're so good, they're so fucking smart. They put like someone in front of the seat, they put a helmet on and they like dance to a song and then they have these noodles that are like swimming pools. And then some point, sometimes someone hits the like head of the person that's sitting. And that person turns around and has three shots to say who it was. If it's them, they switch places. If not, he stays there. Shit like that. It's just like the dumbest shit you've ever heard, but it's super interesting. But you can't fill days with this shit. So if they clock on TikTok that this is like a cool format, they're doing it on the side.
64:26
Iman
64:30
Tenten Founder
Yeah. I think it's worth pushing it.
64:33
Iman
64:34
Tenten Founder
But you have to brand it though.
64:37
Iman
I mean, it's branded though.
64:38
Tenten Founder
No, I mean like the like right now, that's the landing screen, right?
64:42
Alex E
64:42
Tenten Founder
The name is not on there.
64:45
Alex E
Oh yeah, Meets chat.
64:46
Niclas
64:46
Alex E
It is inside the like, but yeah, you're right. It should probably be...
64:49
Tenten Founder
It has to be more branded.
64:50
Niclas
They call it Meets. We should maybe actually rebrand it. It's like Facebook when it was the Facebook before.
64:56
Tenten Founder
64:57
Niclas
Drop the the...
64:57
Tenten Founder
But Meets, there is Google Meet already.
65:00
Alex E
65:01
Tenten Founder
65:01
Niclas
Drop the... true... but we we just noticed that the streamer called it meats.
65:04
Tenten Founder
Yeah, they're trying to shorten it.
65:05
Niclas
They just give it a they just give it a nickname.
65:07
Tenten Founder
65:09
Tenten Founder
Yeah. But then if someone hears it... Yeah, it's like meats...
65:10
Niclas
65:11
Tenten Founder
65:12
Tenten Founder
...you're not gonna be... no, maybe another name or just a logo on the on the home screen and...
65:17
Tenten Founder
but it's worth, honestly it's worth being...
65:20
Niclas
65:20
Tenten Founder
Yeah. ...being uh being pushed because that's a good idea. Yeah.
65:24
Alex E
Oh, there's so many things. There's one thing I also want to build which is like
65:30
Alex E
uh... like a Instagram live stream. Yeah.
65:32
Tenten Founder
65:33
Alex E
But... like so like imagine you're like a normal Joe, or like maybe a
65:36
Alex E
girl, like let's say just college, and you have an Instagram live stream, and basically you have like fake viewers, and basically all the audience is just AI, and you can basically tell your day and it's super uninteresting, but almost you have your own fans that are like, oh yeah, tell us more, blah blah blah. And I know that it's working. Like Status?
65:55
Niclas
65:56
Alex E
No, like like in a way like Status, but Status... You know Status?
65:59
Niclas
65:59
Alex E
66:00
Niclas
Like a fully fake social network where you go on there and you feel like a celebrity because they just show you fake stuff and you talk to AI.
66:06
Alex S
I I think that might be...
66:08
Niclas
You can act as if you're great.
66:09
Alex E
But they have like hundreds of thousands of users.
66:11
Niclas
Yeah, sadly it works. But it's got
66:12
Alex S
but I don't know if it's used by like year old girls.
66:15
Alex E
Yeah, that's obviously what we have to the like that's the...
66:19
Alex S
Because like my my sister, for example, she wanted to be an influencer when she was but somehow eventually realized that maybe that's not her future. Because
66:28
Alex S
people like grow up with this. But if the if the parents can give them an app like this where they know that it's like...
66:35
Alex E
66:35
Niclas
Yeah, safe, yeah, true, true, true. But obviously we don't want
66:37
Alex E
to target that. But there's an app, it's called like Parallel, and it does something like that. And I like my problem
66:39
Alex E
is I don't that's interesting interaction because it's between AI and human. And I like what I'm thinking is making the app where the social the utility is basically they talk with AI. Because I think you can somehow now bootstrap social networks by letting them talk with AI, and I know it's working, there are like five apps character AI, whenever they talk with AI characters. So you already have the social graph, everybody goes on there every day to talk with whichever character. And then let's say you have users, then you kind of have to figure out a way to merge them and let each other talk with... Yeah, that's a
67:12
Tenten Founder
problem. Or have one AI that talks to two people and makes them date.
67:15
Alex E
Yeah, but I think that's a way to solve the like like liquidity problem that's new. Because you get can get them every day and have everyday social interaction. And if it's like an Instagram live stream where they talk with AI, it's already they even used to having...
67:28
Tenten Founder
But you said that you needed the...
67:30
Alex E
67:30
Tenten Founder
67:30
Alex E
Yeah, yeah. So what I what I in thinking about, I'm not sure if it work it's worth it 'cause it's risky, but if we get people doing every day, maybe we can start merging them. Maybe
67:40
Tenten Founder
once they get used
67:40
Alex E
to every day talking to AI, maybe we can start slowly pulling in users together.
67:45
Niclas
So that they do like a podcast for their fake audience?
67:47
Alex E
No, no, no. I mean like connect the users via social graph. Like just like right now it's solo, solo human x AI.
67:53
Alex E
But if you have enough users, maybe you can start connecting humans. I'm just not sure how to do transition.
67:58
Tenten Founder
Can't you scrap podcasts?
68:00
Alex E
Uh, no, 'cause we don't have the separate audio tracks. It's just one mix.
68:04
Tenten Founder
And can't you have a can't you build a tool that separates the audio tracks?
68:08
Alex E
It's not perfect enough that the quality, like let's say it's to of errors would cause too many problems down the line.
68:18
Niclas
Because it's like purely mathematical, right? You wouldn't you would never be able to make it perfect. Because it's like voices overlapping. If we if we say let's say if we
68:24
Alex E
say hi at the exact...
68:25
Niclas
You only have one MP3 file and that's it.
68:28
Alex E
Yeah, if we say hi at the exact moment, it's like it's like same thing.
68:32
Tenten Founder
What about how how do there there is like music softwares that can like remove the voice from the the instrument?
68:38
Alex E
It's good enough. It's good enough for...
68:40
Niclas
Yeah, you don't hear it as a normal person, but like for the model in the end, the data doesn't have the quality.
68:46
Alex E
I don't know, Iman.
68:47
Niclas
Yeah, that he knows more about that.
68:49
Alex E
Yeah, but like that's...
68:50
Niclas
You can ping him.
68:52
Alex E
I mean he asked about basically mixed
68:54
Tenten Founder
68:54
Alex E
track and split.
68:55
Tenten Founder
Why don't you scrap podcasts?
68:57
Alex S
68:58
Tenten Founder
And then he said low quality and then he said because there's only one audio track. But can't you build a software that separates the audio track? It's it's like every diarization model
69:03
Iman
has like whatever between like to like error. But the difference is that it's bimodal. So the difference is um if the audio tracks are heavily reliant on like in parts of the podcast might maybe there's like one speaker talking, there's another speaker talking. Um that's cool, that's great, but that's useless for us. The thing that you would want from like those types of interactions is that I'm talking, you're laughing, I'm talking, you're talking over me, you're taking the floor. But with two mics.
69:36
Tenten Founder
69:36
Iman
interactions. But with two mics. With one mic, you need to separate them through a diarization model. But
69:41
Iman
Those the diarization model has higher like the the lot the errors of the diarization model to cleanly separate the audio, not just say when who is talking, but cleanly separate the waveform on signal level. Like this is like hard clipping and shit. It's incredibly lossy.
69:49
Iman
69:59
Alex S
Ah, with the new pipeline, or the pipe on the tape?
70:03
Iman
It's not important that the JSON says who speaks when. Yeah, yeah.
70:06
Iman
It's important that the waveforms are cleaned off each other. To to separate.
70:09
Tenten Founder
70:09
Iman
That doesn't exist. Gemini has one, that's the number one that they use, and they use it on all YouTube and stuff. Yeah.
70:16
Iman
And that gets you like to something. But like, podcasts isn't that relevant again, because most of the podcasts are just like, hey man, how was it building your previous app? And you say, well, it was incredible because I did da da da da da. Two things. One, you don't know who's speaking with the other, so there's no like interaction over one another.
70:31
Tenten Founder
It depends. Some of them, there's like five people and girls and they talk about sex and life and shit like friends, you know? Yes, but the sec-
70:37
Iman
but the second thing is, um, at the, like, um, yeah, but if if if even hats to some, like if even if the, let's say all this like shit was like figured out and the podcasts were incredibly casual and stuff, the errors of the downstream wave separations are significant enough to like make it useless. Because
70:42
Iman
it's basically also a problem, like, contributing to the model of errors accumulating. So if your
70:43
Iman
waveform is already fucked, and they're like not clearly separated, then the noise you need to sort of maybe classify in the back is not perfect, the transcriptions are lost into five to ten percent, then whatever comes downstream is, so you just accumulate errors. And the only thing you can do and need to do is like let, basically solve all errors in the process.
71:25
Tenten Founder
Okay.
71:25
Iman
Um, but it's, yeah, I mean we we we chatted about podcasts for like months.
71:31
Iman
Like. We we even ac- I think we acquired like some hours of podcast data too, didn't we?
71:36
Alex E
Yeah. It's just the separation, that's the short.
71:38
Tenten Founder
And and yeah, and if you talk to the podcast, like someone that has like a...
71:43
Alex E
Oh yeah, that like I don't want to do that ever again. We
71:46
Alex E
tried that. Yeah, we tried that.
71:48
Tenten Founder
71:48
Alex E
No? It's like, it's,
71:51
Alex E
you go through so much pain with so many like retarded people that are so confused why they give, why you have to mention like you're at least part doing AI. They're so confused. Like they they think they're selling their soul.
72:01
Alex E
72:03
Iman
72:03
Alex E
Yeah, yeah. They're thinking they're like Joe Rogan and you're like giving out their licenses like Britney Spears and they're like,
72:08
Alex E
oh, I want to protect it, that's worth like three million. Like bro, you have three listeners. And like, you can do that, but it's so operationally intense. That's why I'm like also a bit like cautious of operational ideas. It's very operationally intense.
72:17
Alex E
72:18
Tenten Founder
72:20
Tenten Founder
And and we talked about like interviews, but why don't you do podcasts?
72:24
Niclas
What what I was...
72:25
Tenten Founder
College podcasts. You set up
72:27
Tenten Founder
a group chat. You mean as ourselves?
72:28
Niclas
72:29
Tenten Founder
Just... hire for someone that's good at it and you go to UCLA or whatever and you have them talk for an hour or two hours and like five people with all mics and shit and then you do a podcast and you talk about a random like you have someone that like you can have like hundreds of hours.
72:43
Niclas
It's again the same thing as as in bars, right?
72:46
Tenten Founder
Yeah, pretty much. But at least you have cleaner cleaner air and also and legal because bars you have to pay alcohol whatever. And then why don't you build a product for podcaster to record on there? Like what do they use?
72:57
Alex E
That's that's a good strategy.
72:57
Niclas
That would be also.
72:58
Tenten Founder
And then you're like everyone is using it and then you get the fucking all the traction, no?
73:02
Alex E
Like building the podcast tool,
73:05
Tenten Founder
73:05
Alex E
that's like that's like a reasonable strategy.
73:07
Tenten Founder
73:08
Alex E
It's more like
73:09
Alex E
the main that's more like a engineering effort that's like it's the podcast tools right now.
73:14
Niclas
It's also distribution not so easy because podcasters there are like two or three tools that are really good
73:20
Niclas
that everybody uses
73:21
Niclas
and it's hard really hard I think to afford them because they're like it's integrated into their workflow and there's not many like new podcasters probably coming out.
73:29
Tenten Founder
You have to better.
73:30
Alex E
make it significantly
73:31
Niclas
73:31
Alex E
Yeah, yeah. But that's like a great like for me that's like a great idea like because you get the from the bottom of the funnel. It's that's more like you have to like build Premiere Pro kind of.
73:41
Tenten Founder
Yeah. But instead of like asking those girls that do podcast with six people like
73:45
Alex E
73:45
Tenten Founder
to buy their things, just be like yeah we have this software.
73:48
Tenten Founder
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Try to understand like what they use and what's the pain on their software and be like try ours, it's free like.
73:54
Alex E
I think there used to be like Anchor that got bought by Spotify
73:59
Alex E
So and I think they Anchor start Anchor became like a upload your podcast easily to Spotify but they started with like democratize like make it easier for like normal people to record podcasts. I think that's something we could go into.
74:07
Alex E
74:12
Alex S
74:13
Alex E
74:15
Niclas
Yeah, but that that I I researched that at one time when we talked about it and I think there were like good
74:19
Niclas
reasons why they failed.
74:20
Alex E
Yeah, our research was like people have tried it and nobody really nailed democratizing podcasts, whatever that means.
74:27
Tenten Founder
Yeah, because podcast is too it's audio and video and the one that works really well is video podcast.
74:32
Niclas
74:33
Niclas
Yeah, on YouTube like free man.
74:34
Tenten Founder
Yeah, exactly. On YouTube you see them talking and they're like yeah so like you have erection problems and they talk and you know they say like some crazy shit.
74:40
Alex E
What podcast?
74:41
Tenten Founder
No, you see some clips sometimes, you know.
74:43
Niclas
And Andrew Huberman probably talks about this stuff.
74:44
Tenten Founder
There's like some clips.
74:46
Alex E
Yeah.
74:46
Tenten Founder
Andrew Huberman is the yeah Huberman.
74:50
Niclas
74:50
Tenten Founder
My my girlfriend is in real estate and she leased his house. She rented a house from him in Malibu.
74:56
Niclas
74:56
Tenten Founder
And apparently when she when he gave the house back...
74:59
Niclas
75:01
Tenten Founder
There were like shit on the floor. Like actual human No way.
75:03
Niclas
feces on the floor.
75:04
Tenten Founder
75:05
Niclas
75:06
Tenten Founder
She told me it was it was disgusting. She she was like, what the fuck.
75:10
Tenten Founder
Don't take the
75:11
Niclas
probiotics too seriously. Yeah, I don't know, but
75:13
Tenten Founder
yeah, the house was like, they had to like remodel the house, like to repaint everything, to redo everything. Wait, what?
75:20
Alex E
Yeah, yeah. Shit show, literally. Oh my god. It was a shit show.
75:21
Niclas
75:21
Tenten Founder
75:23
Alex E
It's funny.
75:24
Niclas
75:25
Tenten Founder
So you guys are leaving tomorrow?
75:27
Niclas
Yeah, tomorrow evening.
75:29
Tenten Founder
I'll be in San Francisco soon, because one of my best friends live there and I go often. If you want, we can do something there. Like when?
75:35
Niclas
75:37
Tenten Founder
The next few weeks, I think.
75:39
Niclas
Sick, yeah, then let's link for sure.
75:41
Tenten Founder
75:42
Tenten Founder
And yeah, if I think of like a product for you guys.
75:45
Niclas
Yeah, that would be cool.
75:47
Tenten Founder
75:48
Tenten Founder
Why not? But it's interesting though. Do you have time, like it's it's a you have a good like thesis.
75:54
Tenten Founder
75:55
Alex E
Yeah, many there's many things we could do. We could do like the desktop one, which I want to launch at some point because I keep procrastinating. Like I want to make it internally so it's like how I used and like very fleet like sleek.
76:05
Tenten Founder
The what? The... The plugin.
76:06
Alex E
76:07
Niclas
76:07
Tenten Founder
Yeah. The Tintin desktop thing?
76:09
Alex E
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
76:10
Tenten Founder
It's good, honestly. I think there's a market for it.
76:12
Niclas
76:12
Alex E
think so too. Because okay, my what I've noticed, it it started out with the voice.
76:17
Tenten Founder
76:18
Alex E
Yeah, I I think the core use case is gonna be you're in your application and you don't want to do context switching.
76:25
Tenten Founder
76:25
Alex E
Yeah. So you just tap last screen, take go down, tap last screen, go down.
76:28
Alex E
Like you don't have to open Slack, find the thread, message someone.
76:31
Tenten Founder
This one, I'm down to do it with you guys, this one.
76:33
Alex E
Yeah.
76:35
Tenten Founder
Job button by any chance?
76:36
Niclas
Yeah, sure, it's there. Yeah.
76:37
Alex E
76:39
Tenten Founder
Right there. Something in the sub button, there is like a...
76:50
Iman
Das ist halt so ein Jelling, der gar nicht fixt.
76:53
Iman
Das ist ein Jelling, der fixt.
76:57
Alex E
Aber er hat so, eigentlich so less likely realistic outcomes, oder?
77:01
Iman
Ja, voll.
77:04
Alex E
77:04
Iman
Es war geiler als ich dachte und es ist schwieriger als ich dachte.
77:08
Alex E
Ja. Ich glaube, ich ich glaube, die Data kommt schon ein bisschen reasonable. Weil ich meine, irgendwer hat, also wir müssen uns ja nicht überlegen, offensichtlich. Aber also wir müssen ein bisschen in Detail in die Details gehen, die Data kaufen, können wir das auch replizieren oder skalieren.
77:25
Iman
Ich glaube halt, er hat sie, also ich glaube, er hat es einfach falsch gesagt, wie er gekauft hat, glaube ich.
77:29
Alex E
Ja?
77:30
Alex E
77:31
Iman
Der hat einfach nur, der hat einfach nur das bekommen, einfach so, dass der Sheriff da Bock hatte, mir das zu geben und der hat gar keine, also quasi gar keine, also...
77:41
Alex E
Okay, weil, äh, Dings da, der, dieser random Discord-Guy, der meinte halt auch, ist sleepy, aber...
77:45
Iman
Hab ich auch gehört, ja, ja.
77:46
Alex E
So...
77:49
Iman
Aber so, er wollte die nicht sharen. Das hab ich, also er hat mir die Discord-Dinger geschickt, aber die wollte, also sind ja scheißegal.
77:54
Iman
Ich will, ich will nur diese Prison-Dinger verstehen, aber er meinte, es ist so secretive, dass er gar nichts erzählen will.
78:01
Alex S
Ja, wenn die, wenn die Datenquelle dubios ist, dann ist das
78:04
Alex S
halt so secretive.
78:05
Iman
der Gast, also eigentlich muss, aber Nikita wusste es auch nicht anscheinend. Also
78:10
Iman
Und eigentlich müsste, also das einzige Gewicht ist, wäre dann auf dem anderen, dann weiß ich nicht, ob wir jetzt...
78:13
Alex E
Okay, dann so ein bisschen strange, egal, so ein komischer, egal, so ein, mit so einem Prison-MP3-Dinger.
78:19
Iman
Das Ding ist halt, so, der, das, es gibt nur so eine finite amount of humans, die denken, dass das richtig insane wertvoll ist.
78:24
Alex E
78:25
Alex S
Ja.
78:26
Iman
Also, ich will eigentlich den, den Namen von der Person wissen, dann kriege ich den richtigen, aber den saufen.
78:30
Iman
Dann will ich so alle secret tricks. Aber ich glaube, es hat literally, als wir uns unterhalten, ist so eine Person, die einfach so überall weg war und so keinen Fick auf Privacy gab und gesagt hat, das ist fein.
78:41
Alex E
78:43
Tenten Founder
Okay. Hi guys.
78:45
Tenten Founder
Nice to meet you.
78:45
Niclas
When are you using the stuff?
78:47
Niclas
Really awesome to meet you. It was a pleasure.
78:48
Tenten Founder
78:49
Alex E
Was awesome to meet you. When are you using the stuff?
78:51
Tenten Founder
Um, in the next couple weeks, I think. Oh, nice. Fun.
78:54
Tenten Founder
78:54
Tenten Founder
78:55
Niclas
Awesome.
78:57
Iman
I'm gonna get a juice.
78:58
Tenten Founder
Alright, later.
78:59
Iman
79:00
Alex E
79:00
Iman
Yeah, I'm gonna get a juice.
79:02
Niclas
Alright, see you. See you, pleasure.
79:03
Alex E
79:03
Niclas
79:06
Alex E
War voll interesting, oder?
Tenten Founder Meeting, Sep 20, 2026